A number of things that I don't know about the Menji Era that I would like to know.

A number of things that I don't know about the Meiji Era that I would like to know.

I want to understand Kenshin better, but there are some things that I don't know of. Btw, I'm reading the manga, and strangely, I've never seen the series or the OVA. But I've heard that the manga is beter anyway, so I'm not complaining

1.What is the Yakuza? I've heard this word said in some samurai games I've played, Kenshin, and Samurai Champloo (great series).

2.What caused the step-down of samurai authority? Was it caused by Japn opening itself to the west?

3. Why does Every series I see that has to do with pre-1900 Japan have corrupt police? Were corrupt police common back then?

4. Did samurai (and ronin) ever wear any armor under their Aikido Hakama?

5 What was the cost to sharpen and strengthen you sword in the Menji Era?

6. Is it possible to make a sword that is completely un-breakable (even if it took 5+ years to make)?

7. How sharp is a Bokkun in relation to a Katana?

8. (WARNING: STUPID QUESTION) Can a Katana really deflect bullets?

 

Okay. i myself am not an expert on the Meiji era, but I know the answer to some of your questions.

1. "yakuza" is a Japanese word for gangsters, or the mafia, whichever you prefer.

2. As far as I know, even before Japan opened to the western world, the samurai class had begun to decline. I think that one reason is caused by Oda Nobunaga, one of the three great reformers of Japan. Nobunaga once led a force of archers and soldiers armed with guns against defending samurai's. Nobunaga won, and from there-on the samurai class began to decline.

3. For your information. Yes, corrupt police were common. Japan's government system was not exactly very stable in the pre-1900's era. The police often times had their own connections with the yakuza, or else they would not have been able to survive for long....or at least that's what my grandfather suggests.

4. Well....almost all samurai's wear armor. It's a tradition, really...I'm not sure about ronins, since they are basically samurai without masters. But I think that if they actually do some fighting, they would wear armors.

5. I have no idea on this question....but I really think that the cost varies.

6. I don't think that's possible. Any sword can be broken, for any materials the swordsmiths use can be broken down.

7. Not very....as much as I know.

8. Uh....no......

Hmm, I hope this helps!

 

why do u call it Menji?

Anyways on #2 I think it was because they wanted to get rid of their past or sumthing like that

and on the sword makeing part thats impossible unless you have the best and hradest material in all of the Galaxy.

 

Thanks

I thought that was the era when all this happened, but as you can tell, I don't know much.

 

ok then lets start


ok

Yakuza were Japan's gangsters. They would run gamblings houses and prostitution, they would pay off local Doshin and Yoriki to keep there places open and as long as they didnt overstep their boundries, they were tolerated.

The samurai began to decline with the obvious lack of modern convieniences which began with the coming of Commodore Perry in Uraga in 1854. The country had lived in general peace since October 1600 when Tokugawa Ieyasu took control of the country. His Grandson, Tokugawa Iemitsu layed down the Sankoku policy which allowed only two Dutch ships a year to sail into Nagasaki Harbor. He also elliminated Christianity in Japan. Because of this isolationist rule, Japan's growth as a modern country was slow and they relied heavily upon the caste system laid down by Toyotomi Hideyoshi. When Commodore Perry sailed into Uraga, it became obvious to the Japanese government that the world around them was changing fast and they needed to catch up. Tokugawa Iemochi, the 14th Tokugawa Shogun, was incompetant and his government was spiraling out of control. Upon his death, Tokugawa Keiki later known as Tokugawa Yoshinobu, took power and established a National Army and Navy. However, the damage that Iemochi had done was great and there was little control over the country. Like they had done in the 1640's, The Satsuma Han along with the Choshuu han and the Tosa Village alliance sprang up, becoming rebels against this new government. Soon Yoshinobu realized he had little that he could do against this uprising rebellion and turned his nation over to a 15 year old Emperor Meiji. Behind him were several corrupt men who schemed and used him as a figure head to wipe out the samurai culture and to bring in influence from Germany and France. Soon a complete navy existed and a metropolitan Police Force grew. Then on January 1st, 1877, The Haitorei Edict was put into place. This was the final act against the samurai which banned the wearing of swords, plus the right to Kitsure Gomen which was the unpunsished slaying of commoners by the Samurai. From this point on, the samurai class slowly died away to a new age, and wouldnt see a rennisance until World War Two when Nihontou were given to officers to boost Bushido and moral in the war.


Corrupt officials fill the pages of history. Even in the prisons the gaurds would get paid off to buy tobacco and other things. Anything could be bought except for Knives and women.

The Sengoku Jidai was a turbulent period and war and battles were extremely common and samurai wouldnt leave home without their armor on and with their swords. However, after Tokugawa Ieyasu took over the country, the wars and battles died and a new peace took over. Japanese armor is fairly heavy weighing about 60 pounds over all and in this new peace there was little need for heavy armor, so the samurai began to simply wear their kimono and hakama with their swords.

Sword polishing was often somewhat expensive, however, the samurai had little care for money and would pay what they thought the work was worth, generally, their wives handled expenses and they simply brought their sword to the togishi to be polished. today prices vary a lot. a full polish is usually about 70 dollars and inch and a tameshigiri polish is about 50 dollars an inch.

The Japanese sword is an amazing weapon, a thousand years of development went into the design and building of one. However, because the edge is super hard its also brittle and has a tendency to chip and break when it comes in contact with something like another sword. So, Nihon Kenjutsu is very centered around killing with a single strike unlike western fencing in which parrying is a major part of the forte. Unbreakable swords arent possible, however the closest thing now would be the L6 Bainite Katana from the Morgan Valley Forge. Modern steel and new forging process create a sword with immense strength and unheard of edge holding capabilites.

Bokken arent sharp at all. meant as a training weapon, the first recorded history of them being used in training comes around the 1100's.

no...it would instantly shatter the sword and very easily go right into you.

Hitokiri_Gensai

 

actually, during Nobunaga's time, the samurai classes hadnt even been formed. it wasnt until his succesor Toyotomi Hideyoshi, that the caste systerm would be employed.

Corruption was a thing that the Tokguawa faced all the time. Its really not too different from the governments of todays countries. Men who have power seek to keep it and by any means necessary sometimes, so it wouldnt be unusual to see a member of the Roju helping one of his family or heirs to get a position in the So-Roju to keep the family lines tied with the Shogun.

Again, armor was something that wasnt all too common during the Meiji Era. the age when armor was neccesary had died almost 260 years before this time and at this point, armor wasnt something that the samurai wore. Even in the 1600's the samurai didnt wear armor. Ronin are simply samurai without a master to serve (Ronin literally means "One adrift on the waves") They also wouldnt have worn armor. Even most Daimyo wouldnt, unless they were partaking in a battle exercise and even when a real battle happened it was uncommon for a samurai to wear armor. This era of peace changed a lot of things about the samurai class as well as all the other classes.

 

gensai, i differ on the bullet part. yes, the blade would shatter,(although a bullet has been split in a controlled environment, i believe you can see it on the documentary-type movie Shinken) and the bullet would'nt lose much momentum, (assuming you could plan the path in the first place) but it would almost certainly change direction enough to miss you. (again, assuming you were accurate enough)

 

Per the bullet-deflecting question: http://www.compfused.com/directlink/608

Granted, they're firing along the strongest part of the sword, but it still took 7 shots from a .50cal MG to break it.

EDIT: Don't watch if you're a katanaphile.

It seems to me, with this evidence, that a katana could affect a bullet. Albeit a limited number of them, and it would ruin the sword. Although, human arms and reflexes would very likely not be capable of it. The force a bullet flies with is quite great, and, my guess is it would tear the sword out of the arms of whoever was holding it. And they're small, too, so it's not that likely you'd be able to hit the bullet with the sword.

Lastly, in the video clip, the sword was cleaving the bullets (at first), not deflecting them. Which does nothing except look impressive. It would just make for more wounds for you.

 

while that is an amazing video, it proves many things. Firstly, bullets are fairly soft metal, they bend and become deformed just from being fired. Secondly, the Nihontou is the sharpest cutting sword ever made, but, its edge while extremely sharp and hard, is also very brittle and prone to chipping and bending. Thirdly, while it did take a lot of bullets to break the sword, im fairly sure that you wouldnt be able to move the sword into the path of the bullet much less actually be able to cut it. Fourthly, these bullets were hitting the sword dead on, what would happen if they were hitting the side of the sword? Well in my opinion as a swordsman and as someone whose studied the creation of a nihontou, i think that it would break much faster and much easier.

Overall, id have to say that even if you could move your sword into the path of the bullet your still pretty much screwed. Even if you could cut the bullet, inevitably, the sword would break and its not a garuntee that it wouldnt break on the first shot anyhow. The Nihontou is an amazing weapon, but in the end, the gun is just more powerful.

on an interesting side note, at the end when they hold up the blade you can clearly see the layers of the sword and how it was made. Also, you can see that the bullets crushed the edge of the sword in and almost broke apart the layers of steel. The Nihontou is an amazing weapon, and its folded crystaline structure is amazingly strong but as we can see, raw power versus even folded steel is deadly.

 

Heh. this is like a Meiji Era 101. Lots of info.!

 

well, actually, the Meiji Era was the begining of the decline of the old way of life, and the start of the new. Swords were banned and the caste system abolished, new rules and regulations sprung up and soon the entire country was on the fast track to modernization. Interestingly enough, Tsukomo Shokai was a trading company that was started in 1870 and was the begining of one of the largest Japanese companies on Earth, Mitsubishi. All part of life were changing rapidly, a national army and navy sprung up shortly after the Bakumatsu, the metropolitan Police started was started under Kawaji Toshiyoshi, a man who was sent across the world to study other police forces. National life began to shift from a farming world into an industrial nation. With this the nations long isolated history began to dissolve, opening to new things, the samurai and their privilages were discarded as relics of the past, for nearly 80 years, the Japanese forgot about the samurai heritage and focused on this new world, However with the outbreak of WWII the japanese again turned to the samurai and its codes, officers were given bar stamped nihontou to boost the morale in the army. The Kamikaze turned to there ancient past when Kublai Khan tried to invade when the "Winds Of God" saved their nation. In such times you see that this nation will never lose its past and its history.

 

Um...guys.. back then guns were different to today's guns. The bullets didnt fly as fast as they do now, so...i think that for a trained swordsman it would be possible to dodge a bullet with a sword. Or, if u see a hand holding a gun u can escape the bullet(if you are fast enough) because u can see movement of the fingers and the angle at which the bullet will be shot. Plus, bullets were made to tear flesh not swords.

 

they were still fast enough to cut through flesh and bone and rip innards apart. Regardless of the time, guns still were vastly more powerful than a sword. Even a fully trained swordsmen cant dodge a bullet. Now there are some things about guns in this period we have to take into account. Firstly, they were of varying quality. different gunsmiths had different patterns and for the most part, just like swords, they all varied in small ways. secondly, these guns were muzzle loaders like Flintlock rifles seen in the Revolution and Civil Wars. This is a type of gun, where a charge of power, and a bullet are loaded through the muzzle of the gun and then tamped down to push it tight against the bottom of the barrel. The firing method of the period was a hammer that had a burning piece of cotton rope on it. when the trigger was pulled the cord would hit the powder in the barrel, and would fire off the charge. Now, another important note, is that powder wasnt always the same amount when loaded into the gun. because the human being was putting the powder in it varied each and everytime it was loaded. Thus, bullets travelled at varying speeds all the time. However, from information ive gather through the years, i seem to have come to the same conclusion, which is, under ordinary cicumstances, the gun would always win against the sword. Bullets are immensly fast even in those periods and for someone to dodge it is highly unlikely. And if done once, a second is hardly possible. This was the unfortunet downfall of the sword. It had survived for years, even with projectile weaponry such as the bow, but the gun was far more capable, and far more accurate at long range. an untrained pheasent could pick up a gun and kill a superbly trained warrior in the blink of an eye. Life it would seem, had begun to move on. And now we find ourselves looking to ever more creative ways to destory ourselves.

 

Well, before i thought that no way its possible to dodge a bullet with a sword. But then i found out that modern bullets travel at 400m/s, when I heard that very old gun's bullets travelled only up to 100m/s, so thats why i assumed that for a talented samurai it would be possible to dodge a bullet. I tried to look up speeds of 1860-1870 gun's bullets, but didnt find anything.... Oh well, untill I find any proof that bullets travelled more then 100m/s back then, I will asume that it is possible to dodge a bullet with a sword.

 

well modern bullets travel anywhere from 1500 to 4000 fps which comes out to be about 1022 MPH to about 2200 MPH so....thats extremely fast.

older bullets travelled at maybe 800 fps which is 550 miles an hour... still faster than a human can react. that means that in a second it can cover 800 feet. i for one after 10 years of iaido cant even get my hand to my swords tsuka in a second with my hands at my side so. human reactions are fast and there are people (trained martial artists) who can catch paintballs and arrows, but we have to see that those things are hardly moving at the speed of a bullet.

 

on the note of the L6 Bainite Katana from the Morgan Valley Forge. I recently saw a review of it.

The first blade was a sharpened unmounted version

The blade had suffered a run in with a forklift (not sure what). the edge had suffered some damage from this but the blade structure remained ok. so the first test consisted of it being put in a vice and then flexed. it was flexed to 60 degrees and when let back it returned true without warpage. the second test. The same blade was later taken and used to strike the concrete ground. The blade left a 1/4 inch deep hole in the concrete without any chipping or breaking of the edge.

the second test blade was a unsharpened 1mm rounded edged version

This blade, like the first, was affixed to a vice and bent. it reached 60 degrees again and it returned to true again. however, at 90 the blade began to warp a bit, but this was a test to see what it would take to break the sword. it was bent to 160 degrees before it began to crack, and after some torqueing back and forth, the affixed end broke.

The blade was then taken and cracked against a concrete block. it quickly broke the block only suffering minor damage. again this proves the immense strength of Howard Clarks swords.

The third and final test blade was a fully mounted sword and sharpened.

this test comprised of cutting at hardwood saplings about 2 inches in diameter. the tester was far from a perfect swordsmen so it took many misses, off angled cuts and other such bad cutting, however the blade eventutally managed to sheer the saplings apart without damage to the blade.

The conclusion of this test, is not to say that you should go cut concrete with your L6 (especially considering the price of about 6000 for the blade alone plus a 5 year wait) but to show how far the testing bar has been raised. These swords, i should point out, are in no way traditional other than their look, however, as far as a martial arts weapons are concerned youd be hard pressed to find a better blade. These blades can take immense torture than other martial arts blade would simple break or bend

 

800 feet....is that around 250 m/sec? Damn...thats fast for a gun that was made 150 years ago.... I dont know where to find resources to check this info, so i will agree with you on this. Ok, you win, bullet cannot be dodged with a sword.

 

well its not just a sword, humans cant dodge that either. its simply too fast for humans, its basicly impossible to see anyway.

 

Well, im not gonna let a lil debate on guns kill a potentially good thread. heres some stuff on armor. http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html
heh, discuss stuff people.