Best CD's

Hello dear Tomita fans

Some simple questions, what you consider is the best version on CD
made of the "Snowflakes are dancing", "Pictures at an exhibition"
and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues the best sounding in
simple CD format?... or those early american CD's (with the USA vinyl
covers)?

what is your opinnion about the audiophile remastered version (2001?)
of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?

I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original sound, the first
time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette (Pictures at an
exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD (silver cover) and I
was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so now I want to
complete the albums in CD with the best quality sound.

Best regards

Neto

 

It's been soooo many years since I've listened to my Tomita RCA albums
(LPs). I'm on my second CD copy of Snowflakes. The Snowflakes "High Performance" CD
(09026-63588-2) was noticeably clearer than the standard CD. I'm also happy
with the sound of the RCA Dolby Surround (60578-2-RG) Firebird CD and the non
surround RCA Planets CD (RCD1-1919).

In my Tomita CD collection, the one that seems to be lacking is the surround
version (60576-2-RG) of Pictures at an Exhibition. I really seem to recall
that the LP version was much better sonically, as well as the mix itself. I
really wish for a better copy of this. Here's hoping a DVD-Audio disc of Pictures
is released sometime.

Andrew Sanchez


In a message dated 6/8/03 8:18:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
o0o_neto_o0o at yahoo.com writes:

> Some simple questions, what you consider is the best version on CD
> made of the "Snowflakes are dancing", "Pictures at an exhibition"
> and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues the best sounding in
> simple CD format?... or those early american CD's (with the USA vinyl
> covers)?
>
> what is your opinnion about the audiophile remastered version (2001?)
> of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
>
> I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original sound, the first
> time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette (Pictures at an
> exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD (silver cover) and I
> was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so now I want to
> complete the albums in CD with the best quality sound.

 

Of the American CDs, I favor the original issues over the silver re-releases
(Dolby Surround), although I did always think the DS version of Planets was
successful (and I notice that the current Japanese CD of Planets has the DS
logo, too).

I do not like the current "audiophile" High Performance version of
Snowflakes. I think the top end is way overemphasized.

I thought the DS (sliver) version of Snowflakes sounded harsh (just a bit)
compared to the first CD release, and the DS version of Pictures lost portions
in the remix. I don't think there was ever a US CD release of Firebird before
the silver DS release. I would recommend getting the Japansese releases in
every case--they sound different from all US CDs, even the first CD releases, and
I assume Tomita had a say in how the Japanese versions sound.

 

>
> what is your opinnion about the audiophile remastered version (2001?)
> of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?

I only have the 80s U.S. CD and the remaster (and the u.s. LP and the
german pressed half speed remastered LP) So without proof I'd think the
Japanese pressing might do it.

> I thought the DS (sliver) version of Snowflakes sounded harsh (just a bit)
> compared to the first CD release,

the first CD release was relatively noisy and a bit murky and distorted


On the 2001 version I think they improved some things and made other
things worse. They seem to have repaired some distortion but its kind of
shrill in spots where it wasn't before and needlessly too dynamic. I had
to ride the volume up and wince when new extremely high volume sections
came up. They improved the overall S/N but did a bit too heavy handedly
with audible artifacts. The upside is they reversed the trend with so
called audiophile CDs, this one tends to cost less than an average CD
and about the same as the silver surround versions.

I wouldn't be surprised if the people doing the remastering not only
didn't know the album that well but I also suspect they concentrated on
the way it sounded in some 96k/24bit setup for a higher res format, just
converting and not really mastering for a CD release


>
> I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original sound, the first
> time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette (Pictures at an
> exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD (silver cover) and I
> was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so now I want to
> complete the albums in CD with the best quality sound.
>

> Of the American CDs, I favor the original issues over the silver re-releases
> (Dolby Surround), although I did always think the DS version of Planets was
> successful (and I notice that the current Japanese CD of Planets has the DS
> logo, too).

So the japanese BGM CD of the Planets is different?

Another odd quirk was I remember the U.S. "Canon of the 3 Stars" (= Dawn
Chorus) came out on LP proclaiming it was "Digitally Remastered", so
does that mean the japanese one wasn't? or was there something about it
that needed it ... and how does it relate to the supposedly test
pressed U.S. CDs of the same

nick

 

Hands down the best sounding ones are the Japaneese
releases. Now, the 24/96 US release is pretty good
but it is Dolbyized a great deal. A lot of the highs
are missing. But, very very clean.
--- Néstor González <o0o_neto_o0o at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello dear Tomita fans
>
> Some simple questions, what you consider is the best
> version on CD
> made of the "Snowflakes are dancing", "Pictures at
> an exhibition"
> and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues the
> best sounding in
> simple CD format?... or those early american CD's
> (with the USA vinyl
> covers)?
>
> what is your opinnion about the audiophile
> remastered version (2001?)
> of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
>
> I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original
> sound, the first
> time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette
> (Pictures at an
> exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD
> (silver cover) and I
> was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so now
> I want to
> complete the albums in CD with the best quality
> sound.
>
> Best regards
>
> Neto
>
>


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I don't have a perfect listening environment (who does?!) but my 1984
UK CD release of Pictures At An Exhibition is very distorted and
muffled in a couple of places. Snowlflakes Are Dancing from the same
era isn't a great deal better.

As has been pointed out here before, Tomita had nothing to do with
the 1991 Dolby Surround remixes or the 2000 re-re-release of
Snowflakes.

Ben

--- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Néstor González
<o0o_neto_o0o at y...> wrote:
> Hello dear Tomita fans
>
> Some simple questions, what you consider is the best version on CD
> made of the "Snowflakes are dancing", "Pictures at an exhibition"
> and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues the best sounding in
> simple CD format?... or those early american CD's (with the USA
vinyl
> covers)?
>
> what is your opinnion about the audiophile remastered version
(2001?)
> of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
>
> I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original sound, the first
> time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette (Pictures at an
> exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD (silver cover) and
I
> was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so now I want to
> complete the albums in CD with the best quality sound.
>
> Best regards
>
> Neto

 

Try the Japanese releases...they are better. A whole
lot better.
--- Ben Ward <baward at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't have a perfect listening environment (who
> does?!) but my 1984
> UK CD release of Pictures At An Exhibition is very
> distorted and
> muffled in a couple of places. Snowlflakes Are
> Dancing from the same
> era isn't a great deal better.
>
> As has been pointed out here before, Tomita had
> nothing to do with
> the 1991 Dolby Surround remixes or the 2000
> re-re-release of
> Snowflakes.
>
> Ben
>
> --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Néstor González
> <o0o_neto_o0o at y...> wrote:
> > Hello dear Tomita fans
> >
> > Some simple questions, what you consider is the
> best version on CD
> > made of the "Snowflakes are dancing", "Pictures at
> an exhibition"
> > and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues the
> best sounding in
> > simple CD format?... or those early american CD's
> (with the USA
> vinyl
> > covers)?
> >
> > what is your opinnion about the audiophile
> remastered version
> (2001?)
> > of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
> >
> > I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original
> sound, the first
> > time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette
> (Pictures at an
> > exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD
> (silver cover) and
> I
> > was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so
> now I want to
> > complete the albums in CD with the best quality
> sound.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Neto
>
>


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If I had the money, I would. As it is, three copies of SAD on CD is enough =

for now!


--- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon <mindvoyager1 at y...> wrote:
> Try the Japanese releases...they are better. A whole
> lot better.
> --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > I don't have a perfect listening environment (who
> > does?!) but my 1984
> > UK CD release of Pictures At An Exhibition is very
> > distorted and
> > muffled in a couple of places. Snowlflakes Are
> > Dancing from the same
> > era isn't a great deal better.
> >
> > As has been pointed out here before, Tomita had
> > nothing to do with
> > the 1991 Dolby Surround remixes or the 2000
> > re-re-release of
> > Snowflakes.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Néstor González
> > <o0o_neto_o0o at y...> wrote:
> > > Hello dear Tomita fans
> > >
> > > Some simple questions, what you consider is the
> > best version on CD
> > > made of the "Snowflakes are dancing", "Pictures at
> > an exhibition"
> > > and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues the
> > best sounding in
> > > simple CD format?... or those early american CD's
> > (with the USA
> > vinyl
> > > covers)?
> > >
> > > what is your opinnion about the audiophile
> > remastered version
> > (2001?)
> > > of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
> > >
> > > I know the silver cover CD's lack of the original
> > sound, the first
> > > time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette
> > (Pictures at an
> > > exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on CD
> > (silver cover) and
> > I
> > > was "what they made to the sound!! " ... so
> > now I want to
> > > complete the albums in CD with the best quality
> > sound.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Neto
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com

 

Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite cheap.
A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt these
c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96 ones
are the best bang for the buck.

Wade
--- Ben Ward <baward at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> If I had the money, I would. As it is, three copies
> of SAD on CD is enough =
> for now!
>
>
> --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon
> <mindvoyager1 at y...> wrote:
> > Try the Japanese releases...they are better. A
> whole
> > lot better.
> > --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > > I don't have a perfect listening environment
> (who
> > > does?!) but my 1984
> > > UK CD release of Pictures At An Exhibition is
> very
> > > distorted and
> > > muffled in a couple of places. Snowlflakes Are
> > > Dancing from the same
> > > era isn't a great deal better.
> > >
> > > As has been pointed out here before, Tomita had
> > > nothing to do with
> > > the 1991 Dolby Surround remixes or the 2000
> > > re-re-release of
> > > Snowflakes.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Néstor
> González
> > > <o0o_neto_o0o at y...> wrote:
> > > > Hello dear Tomita fans
> > > >
> > > > Some simple questions, what you consider is
> the
> > > best version on CD
> > > > made of the "Snowflakes are dancing",
> "Pictures at
> > > an exhibition"
> > > > and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues
> the
> > > best sounding in
> > > > simple CD format?... or those early american
> CD's
> > > (with the USA
> > > vinyl
> > > > covers)?
> > > >
> > > > what is your opinnion about the audiophile
> > > remastered version
> > > (2001?)
> > > > of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
> > > >
> > > > I know the silver cover CD's lack of the
> original
> > > sound, the first
> > > > time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette
> > > (Pictures at an
> > > > exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on
> CD
> > > (silver cover) and
> > > I
> > > > was "what they made to the sound!! " ...
> so
> > > now I want to
> > > > complete the albums in CD with the best
> quality
> > > sound.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > > > Neto
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync
> to Outlook(TM).
> > http://calendar.yahoo.com
>
>


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
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In message <20030609223545.51831.qmail at web40807.mail.yahoo.com>, Wade
Gordon <mindvoyager1 at yahoo.com> writes
>Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite cheap.
>A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt these
>c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96 ones
>are the best bang for the buck.

I am rather cynical about these SACDs - from where are they being
sourced ? If they're derived from the same generation masters that were
used to cut the existing CDs then it seems to me that there's very
little point in the extra outlay.

Me, I'm going to wait for the day (hopefully soon) when Tomita manages
to regain control over his original master tapes and personally
supervises the remastering to hi definition digital medium, like Wendy
Carlos managed to do. It's highly likely that anything else produced by
the record company is probably going to be derived from 3rd or 4th
generation masters. I noticed when I picked up Bermuda Triangle that it
seems to have been derived from the LP cutting masters (I'll bet the
fade at the end of "Dororo" doesn't exist on Tomita's master tape) and
my copy of The Ravel Album has a big click at the end of the first
track!

--
Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.

 

Wade Gordon wrote:
>
> Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite cheap.
> A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt these
> c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96 ones
> are the best bang for the buck.
>
> Wade


I'm not sure much of what you are saying is relavant to Tomita. Neither
Tomita's current label Denon nor BMG make SACDs (to the best of my
knowlege and definitely don't for anything by Tomita).

There is just one *downsampling* from 24/96 on a regular audio CD , the
U.S. 2001 release of "Snowflakes". I and I'm sure others would be
interested in how that one compares to a contemporary BMG Japan version
of the same album.

FWIW Tomita's classical synth albums retail for approx. $21 in Japan
with Bach Fantasy and of course the one DVD-A - Planets 2003 both
costing more.

One doesn't want to buy into the hype some people actually believe that
a properly made japanese CD actually sounds better than one made from
the same digital source somewhere else. (Doubly ironic when you know the
Japanese labels farm some CDs out for overseas manufacture themselves, a
net friend pointed out Gakko I-III was pressed in HK for example, not
that that makes a difference)... Anyway the point is Tomita's albums
have been remastered on more than one occasion so they do use different
digital sources and do sound noticibly different.



nick

 

Brendan Heading wrote:
>
> In message <20030609223545.51831.qmail at web40807.mail.yahoo.com>, Wade
> Gordon <mindvoyager1 at yahoo.com> writes
> >Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite cheap.
> >A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt these
> >c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96 ones
> >are the best bang for the buck.
>
> I am rather cynical about these SACDs - from where are they being
> sourced ? If they're derived from the same generation masters that were
> used to cut the existing CDs then it seems to me that there's very
> little point in the extra outlay.

The theory which has some truth is they go back to the analog master
tapes and re-digitize the album.

So there are 2 issues here.

1) The new medium may be able to better capture what was on that
non-digital tape.

For what it's worth, SACD is the Sony format used by that hyped Pink
Floyd reissue and a Sakamoto 2 Morelenbaum album on WEA Japan I've yet
to hear of anyone I know reviewing. Notably I understand it does not use
Pulse code modulation, the encoding CDs and Computers use for audio, its
stored uncomporessed numerically but using another way to record what
the wave looks like. So a number that applies to PCM like 44.1KHz/16bit
has no relavance for better or worse

You are right in saying that if the master was recorded on digital gear
to begin with you can't capture it better though perhaps one can go on
to the second reason

2) What kind of tweaking is someone doing to make the master tapes sound
best? The problem here is its definitely more an art than a science.
People have made things worse quite often. Certain imperfections are
more annoying to some people than others. For example on Snowflakes I
think the gating (using an automatic volume adjuster to quickly fade to
silence silence the sound rather than allow the low level noise present
in quiet moments be heard) sounds worse and more unnatural than the tape
noise. The goal at least to me is whatever is done is only noticible in
possitive comparison to the supplanted version. One should never be able
to hear "oh something is being fooled around with here".


>
> Me, I'm going to wait for the day (hopefully soon) when Tomita manages
> to regain control over his original master tapes and personally
> supervises the remastering to hi definition digital medium, like Wendy
> Carlos managed to do.

Uh. Planets 2003 was supervised by Tomita just as you say, though of he
changed parts.

Carlos has yet to re-issue in a higher than CD quality medium though I'm
sure that will someday happen. What Carlos did do was supervise the
remastering process. For those not following, the importance there is
that the artist was happy about the quality of what was released on CD.

For what its worth its amusing to find Sakamoto being behind yet another
YMO best of compilation. What is amusing is the claim he not only chose
the tracks but supervised the remastering. Specifically because in 1999
Haruomi Hosono, who has a sort of senior member of the band status
remastered all the 12 or so albums because he didn't like the 12 or so
remasters done in 1998 by others! Other fun facts: Sakamoto released one
SACD on the WEA Japan label but has released many regular CDs since. The
new "almost but not quite YMO" (well thats how I like to call them) band
officially known as Sketch Show is doing 2 shows in London later this
month. I'm sure the info is on the YMO yahoogroup if you want to find
out more.

>It's highly likely that anything else produced by
> the record company is probably going to be derived from 3rd or 4th
> generation masters.

There would be no reason for that to *always* happen, not that it
doesn't.

Obviously whay that was happening a lot had mostly to do with the major
labels got that urge to release stuff on CD ASAP and of course didn't
care to track down the originals. After all that Japanese 1980s pressing
of the Beatles Abbey Road CD was just that and among other reasons was
because it was and soundeed like several generations down (ironic too
because people did like the higher quality of Japanese LP vinyl and
would often pay extra).

You have to determine how much anyone cares that something sounds good
and take into accound that some stuff has decayed or gotten permanatly
lost. Hey, there is even plenty of stuff out there remastered from an
actual LP, not that that sounds good at all (Unless the tape is
permanatly damaged and you go back far enough and there was no tape)

The RCA & Polydor Vangelis material was transfered more than 10 years
ago and still sounds mediocre and unlike Tomita has not been remastered
except for "Chariots of Fire" (3 versions) and "Heaven and Hell" (with a
better quality newer Japanese mastering probably addressing the poor
earlier mastering that Windam Hill still uses over a decade later.

I noticed when I picked up Bermuda Triangle that it
> seems to have been derived from the LP cutting masters (I'll bet the
> fade at the end of "Dororo" doesn't exist on Tomita's master tape) and
> my copy of The Ravel Album has a big click at the end of the first
> track!

Well those things are worth considering but none of them sound like they
really spoil things. I don't remember a click on the Japanese "Daphnis
et Chloe" but I haven't looked for one.

As for mastertapes, remember the process is #1 mulitrack, #2 mix, #3
master. On the other hand sometimes one is right when they hear fades
that don't sound right. Sometimes someone over eagar fades stuff out too
quickly because they worry someone will hear noise for the last few
seconds as that is surely the easiest areas to spot noise, when there is
no other loud sounds.

nick

 

Maybe I wasn't being clear; I meant SAD as in Snowflakes Are Dancing,
rather than SACD as in Super Audio CD! ;-)

Ben

--- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon <mindvoyager1 at y...>
wrote:
> Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite cheap.
> A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt these
> c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96 ones
> are the best bang for the buck.
>
> Wade
> --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > If I had the money, I would. As it is, three copies
> > of SAD on CD is enough =
> > for now!
> >
> >
> > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon
> > <mindvoyager1 at y...> wrote:
> > > Try the Japanese releases...they are better. A
> > whole
> > > lot better.
> > > --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > > > I don't have a perfect listening environment
> > (who
> > > > does?!) but my 1984
> > > > UK CD release of Pictures At An Exhibition is
> > very
> > > > distorted and
> > > > muffled in a couple of places. Snowlflakes Are
> > > > Dancing from the same
> > > > era isn't a great deal better.
> > > >
> > > > As has been pointed out here before, Tomita had
> > > > nothing to do with
> > > > the 1991 Dolby Surround remixes or the 2000
> > > > re-re-release of
> > > > Snowflakes.
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Néstor
> > González
> > > > <o0o_neto_o0o at y...> wrote:
> > > > > Hello dear Tomita fans
> > > > >
> > > > > Some simple questions, what you consider is
> > the
> > > > best version on CD
> > > > > made of the "Snowflakes are dancing",
> > "Pictures at
> > > > an exhibition"
> > > > > and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese reisues
> > the
> > > > best sounding in
> > > > > simple CD format?... or those early american
> > CD's
> > > > (with the USA
> > > > vinyl
> > > > > covers)?
> > > > >
> > > > > what is your opinnion about the audiophile
> > > > remastered version
> > > > (2001?)
> > > > > of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know the silver cover CD's lack of the
> > original
> > > > sound, the first
> > > > > time I heard Tomita was with an old cassette
> > > > (Pictures at an
> > > > > exhibition) of my father, then I bought it on
> > CD
> > > > (silver cover) and
> > > > I
> > > > > was "what they made to the sound!! " ...
> > so
> > > > now I want to
> > > > > complete the albums in CD with the best
> > quality
> > > > sound.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Neto
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync
> > to Outlook(TM).
> > > http://calendar.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com

 

Actually, I do play Tomita music on my radio program
"Sound Explorer." I just did Tomita: the planets.
--- Brendan Heading <brendanheading at clara.co.uk>
wrote:
> In message
>
<20030609223545.51831.qmail at web40807.mail.yahoo.com>,
> Wade
> Gordon <mindvoyager1 at yahoo.com> writes
> >Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite
> cheap.
> >A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt
> these
> >c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96
> ones
> >are the best bang for the buck.
>
> I am rather cynical about these SACDs - from where
> are they being
> sourced ? If they're derived from the same
> generation masters that were
> used to cut the existing CDs then it seems to me
> that there's very
> little point in the extra outlay.
>
> Me, I'm going to wait for the day (hopefully soon)
> when Tomita manages
> to regain control over his original master tapes and
> personally
> supervises the remastering to hi definition digital
> medium, like Wendy
> Carlos managed to do. It's highly likely that
> anything else produced by
> the record company is probably going to be derived
> from 3rd or 4th
> generation masters. I noticed when I picked up
> Bermuda Triangle that it
> seems to have been derived from the LP cutting
> masters (I'll bet the
> fade at the end of "Dororo" doesn't exist on
> Tomita's master tape) and
> my copy of The Ravel Album has a big click at the
> end of the first
> track!
>
> --
> Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
> Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud
> céanna é.
>


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Actually, I mostly agree with your assessment. Yes,
there are no S.A.C.D.'s for Tomita's product. And
yes, there is definitely a difference between the
Japanese releases and the American and UK ones. It is
a different mix altogether. I prefer the Japanese
ones. When I talk to him I will bring that up. You
can find the Japanese one's used and also at auctions.
Your socialization skills and reflexes will
determine what you pay for them. The only one I am
currently looking for is "Misty Kind of Wind."

There is also one 24/96 release on HP and that is
snowflakes. It is rather flat compared to the
original Japanese release. It is less noisy though.

Wade
--- "N. Kent" <ndkent at optonline.net> wrote:
> Wade Gordon wrote:
> >
> > Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite
> cheap.
> > A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt
> these
> > c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96
> ones
> > are the best bang for the buck.
> >
> > Wade
>
>
> I'm not sure much of what you are saying is relavant
> to Tomita. Neither
> Tomita's current label Denon nor BMG make SACDs (to
> the best of my
> knowlege and definitely don't for anything by
> Tomita).
>
> There is just one *downsampling* from 24/96 on a
> regular audio CD , the
> U.S. 2001 release of "Snowflakes". I and I'm sure
> others would be
> interested in how that one compares to a
> contemporary BMG Japan version
> of the same album.
>
> FWIW Tomita's classical synth albums retail for
> approx. $21 in Japan
> with Bach Fantasy and of course the one DVD-A -
> Planets 2003 both
> costing more.
>
> One doesn't want to buy into the hype some people
> actually believe that
> a properly made japanese CD actually sounds better
> than one made from
> the same digital source somewhere else. (Doubly
> ironic when you know the
> Japanese labels farm some CDs out for overseas
> manufacture themselves, a
> net friend pointed out Gakko I-III was pressed in HK
> for example, not
> that that makes a difference)... Anyway the point is
> Tomita's albums
> have been remastered on more than one occasion so
> they do use different
> digital sources and do sound noticibly different.
>
>
>
> nick
>


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Misty Kid Of Wind? ;-)

Ben

--- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon <mindvoyager1 at y...>
wrote:
> Actually, I mostly agree with your assessment. Yes,
> there are no S.A.C.D.'s for Tomita's product. And
> yes, there is definitely a difference between the
> Japanese releases and the American and UK ones. It is
> a different mix altogether. I prefer the Japanese
> ones. When I talk to him I will bring that up. You
> can find the Japanese one's used and also at auctions.
> Your socialization skills and reflexes will
> determine what you pay for them. The only one I am
> currently looking for is "Misty Kind of Wind."
>

 

Okay...nuff said.
--- Ben Ward <baward at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Maybe I wasn't being clear; I meant SAD as in
> Snowflakes Are Dancing,
> rather than SACD as in Super Audio CD! ;-)
>
> Ben
>
> --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon
> <mindvoyager1 at y...>
> wrote:
> > Actually, you can get the Japanese ones quite
> cheap.
> > A lot cheaper than an S.A.C.D. I have to admitt
> these
> > c.d.'s do not hold up to all the hype. The 24/96
> ones
> > are the best bang for the buck.
> >
> > Wade
> > --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > > If I had the money, I would. As it is, three
> copies
> > > of SAD on CD is enough =
> > > for now!
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon
> > > <mindvoyager1 at y...> wrote:
> > > > Try the Japanese releases...they are better.
> A
> > > whole
> > > > lot better.
> > > > --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > > > > I don't have a perfect listening environment
> > > (who
> > > > > does?!) but my 1984
> > > > > UK CD release of Pictures At An Exhibition
> is
> > > very
> > > > > distorted and
> > > > > muffled in a couple of places. Snowlflakes
> Are
> > > > > Dancing from the same
> > > > > era isn't a great deal better.
> > > > >
> > > > > As has been pointed out here before, Tomita
> had
> > > > > nothing to do with
> > > > > the 1991 Dolby Surround remixes or the 2000
> > > > > re-re-release of
> > > > > Snowflakes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Néstor
> > > González
> > > > > <o0o_neto_o0o at y...> wrote:
> > > > > > Hello dear Tomita fans
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some simple questions, what you consider
> is
> > > the
> > > > > best version on CD
> > > > > > made of the "Snowflakes are dancing",
> > > "Pictures at
> > > > > an exhibition"
> > > > > > and "Firebird"?, are the 1991 japanese
> reisues
> > > the
> > > > > best sounding in
> > > > > > simple CD format?... or those early
> american
> > > CD's
> > > > > (with the USA
> > > > > vinyl
> > > > > > covers)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what is your opinnion about the audiophile
> > > > > remastered version
> > > > > (2001?)
> > > > > > of the "Snowflakes are dancing" CD?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know the silver cover CD's lack of the
> > > original
> > > > > sound, the first
> > > > > > time I heard Tomita was with an old
> cassette
> > > > > (Pictures at an
> > > > > > exhibition) of my father, then I bought it
> on
> > > CD
> > > > > (silver cover) and
> > > > > I
> > > > > > was "what they made to the sound!! "
> ...
> > > so
> > > > > now I want to
> > > > > > complete the albums in CD with the best
> > > quality
> > > > > sound.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Neto
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
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> sync
> > > to Outlook(TM).
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync
> to Outlook(TM).
> > http://calendar.yahoo.com
>
>


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I make typos....I am human...I make mistakes....all I
can say is ooops.
--- Ben Ward <baward at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Misty Kid Of Wind? ;-)
>
> Ben
>
> --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon
> <mindvoyager1 at y...>
> wrote:
> > Actually, I mostly agree with your assessment.
> Yes,
> > there are no S.A.C.D.'s for Tomita's product. And
> > yes, there is definitely a difference between the
> > Japanese releases and the American and UK ones.
> It is
> > a different mix altogether. I prefer the Japanese
> > ones. When I talk to him I will bring that up.
> You
> > can find the Japanese one's used and also at
> auctions.
> > Your socialization skills and reflexes will
> > determine what you pay for them. The only one I
> am
> > currently looking for is "Misty Kind of Wind."
> >
>
>
>


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Well, its an easy mistake to make I must say.

Ben

--- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon <mindvoyager1 at y...>
wrote:
> I make typos....I am human...I make mistakes....all I
> can say is ooops.
> --- Ben Ward <baward at b...> wrote:
> > Misty Kid Of Wind? ;-)
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > --- In isaotomita at yahoogroups.com, Wade Gordon
> > <mindvoyager1 at y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Actually, I mostly agree with your assessment.
> > Yes,
> > > there are no S.A.C.D.'s for Tomita's product. And
> > > yes, there is definitely a difference between the
> > > Japanese releases and the American and UK ones.
> > It is
> > > a different mix altogether. I prefer the Japanese
> > > ones. When I talk to him I will bring that up.
> > You
> > > can find the Japanese one's used and also at
> > auctions.
> > > Your socialization skills and reflexes will
> > > determine what you pay for them. The only one I
> > am
> > > currently looking for is "Misty Kind of Wind."
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com

 

Wade Gordon wrote:
>
> Actually, I mostly agree with your assessment. Yes,
> there are no S.A.C.D.'s for Tomita's product. And
> yes, there is definitely a difference between the
> Japanese releases and the American and UK ones. It is
> a different mix altogether.

Though technically if they worked from existing mixed tapes then its a
remaster not a different mix. A different mix would be working from the multitracks


I prefer the Japanese
> ones. When I talk to him I will bring that up. You
> can find the Japanese one's used and also at auctions.
> Your socialization skills and reflexes will
> determine what you pay for them. The only one I am
> currently looking for is "Misty Kind of Wind."
>
> There is also one 24/96 release on HP and that is
> snowflakes.

Though my point was you are not getting a disc that contains anything
24/96 being sold at the present time. (But of course its implied that
the same thing is all ready and waiting to come out in the future on
some better than CD format if when BMG USA feels like it)

>It is rather flat compared to the
> original Japanese release. It is less noisy though.

Though they went too far to make it less noisy in at least my
estimation. I myself would use terms like too dynamic and sometimes
shrill rather than say it's flat.


> You
> can find the Japanese one's used and also at auctions.
> Your socialization skills and reflexes will
> determine what you pay for them.

True but if anything its a matter of finding collectors who are broke.
They aren't that common because while they sold for years they weren't
selling in huge numbers like say YMO, Denki Groove or even Kahimi Karie
to drop some names of artists one can easily find all but the rarest
albums used any day. I saw Used Tomita from time to time in CD shops in
Japan and there but never in any quantity or variety, its more a trickle
of cash strapped fans and people jacking up the prices on sealed copies.
As for new ones expect to pay more than $21 unless again you find
someone in need of fast cash or forgetting to set a minimum price.

> The only one I am
> currently looking for is "Misty Kind of Wind."

Yes, that one has been out of print longest. Anyone document how much if
any of those really obscure albums and commissions are synth music?

I had my chance but kept putting off getting Hansel und Gretel myself.
Didn't know if I wanted to pay a lot for a laserdisc and then track down
someone with a player and buying a pricey VHS wasn't really motivating
me either.

nick