Current Affairs Clinton or Obama?

With all the hoopla going around, I'm curious.

Of the DNC candidates, who would you pick. Clinton or Obama?

 

Oh wow, prepare to be besiged...

Personally, I'm not a fan of either. McCain prolly has a better shot of beating Hilary, that's why Im pulling for her.

Kinda stinks that it seems like so much of the selection was decided before I even got a chance to vote.

 

Love how the whole media is focused on them two only.

Not that McCain has anything to worry about, Huckabee is to far to catch up.

Between the two, if I had to choose (*magic anit-flaming shield casted) I'd go with Hilary.



-Seishin

 

I'm thinking that with this win in Ohio and Texas, Clinton is in this for the long haul.

Personally I think the longer Obama and Clinton fight each other the better it is for McCain which makes me wonder...

If either candidate really cared about the country and achieving the objectives of the DNC wouldn't they drop out (like Mitt Romney did) and support the remaining candidate to achieve a victory for the Democrats?

 

Hey I heard that the republicans can't win against obama or hilary but this would be the first for one or the other to happen but if I was able to vote it'd be Obama from the start.

 

Oh he shall win, just you wait and see. I've sent in my campaign contributions and the money train is rollin'.

The problem I have with both Obama and Clinton is I can't see either of them as being able to defend the USA from al-Queda. Bottom line is I'm getting married soon and I want my wife and kids to be ok. I may not like everything McCain stands for but I know he'll keep the military doing what they do best.

 

In my opinion Obama will win.

 

Whoa whoa whoa, I have more issues with this statement than I care to admit.

#1: The military is doing nothing out there but being shot at.
#2: The more we stay out there the more we bolster the ranks of fundamentalist terrorist organizations- we're making enemies, not killing them.
#3: You're honestly scared about Al-Queda? There's a slew of organizations out there that hate us, not just them, and if they want to strike there's nothing we can do about it. We just have to get along. But what are the odds of being killed by a terrorist attack? Ha! Take a look at this.

Hilary Clinton is a snide, deceptive, and heartless shell of a woman who plays off the pity of others to gain a political foothold, is utilizing downright dirty tactics to win, and has the attitude of "Anything to become president". She's downright sinister. Ever watch her during a debate, she's chilling.

But who has time to watch that, especially when a large number of Americans don't even have cable. That's how she's getting the vote right now. The elderly and the uneducated, by in large.

Obama is a politician of a different vein (I can't believe I'm saying this). Watch him during a debate, it's rather stunning- the level of control he uses, the calm demeanor, and the message he tries to preach. He's still a politician, but I personally think he's a better choice for this country than psycho Clinton or McCain (who, I'm convinced, is an idiot). I like Obama's tactics, he doesn't slander the other party, and instead focuses on what he wants to see happen, his vision for change.

That's a breath of fresh air.

More importantly he has the independent vote, as well as a portion of the republican vote. What kind of character can pull that stunt off. If Hilary makes it as the democratic nominee, then I foresee many people (including myself) voting for McCain. Why?

Because as dumb as he might be, he's emotionally stable, and appears to mean well. McCain doesn't scare me when he talks. Hilary Clinton for Neo-Fascism in '08

~W

 

Untrue. Since the "Surge" was implimented violence as a whole has dramatically reduced in Iraq and many Iraqis are returning to their homes. Additionally, the individuals captured and interrogated from Iraq and Afghanistan have enabled the US military and CIA to stop numerous attacks on the USA. I have a cousin who's a green beret and spent 8 months in Afghanistan and Iraq, he was able to give me quite a shocking list of the number of attacks they'd prevented.

Also untrue. According to the Brookings Insistution (who I might add is very critical of the Bush administration in general) the "surge" has increased the trust of the Iraqi people towards the American forces and increased their personal security. Many of our insurgent arrests now come from people being turned in BY IRAQIS, not through military or inteligence operative arrests.

I don't live in New York or DC, of course I don't think that my own life will be ended by al-Queda. However, we are a nation not a collection of individuals who don't care about each other. Our country and what it stands for is under attack. Without a firm military intervention they will not stop until they have destroyed the United States. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in denile.

I must finally say then when I say "they" I do NOT mean muslims. I mean al-queda and forces like it. Organisations that use ideology and religion as a tool to control desperate people and use them as pawns. That's just plain evil.

 

This would be a great little topic for the debate forum.

#1: Afghanistan is a UN Sponsored military action against terrorist cells in said country, and has almost world wide support. Iraq is a United States initiative brought about by false information and a mislead public. What have we accomplished in Iraq? The Sunni's and the Shiites are still at war with one another. It appears that after we leave it will only be a matter of time before the country tears itself apart. Killing Saddam ended his reign of terror, but it also sparked old hostilities between different Muslim cultures that had been suppressed by his rule. Being IN the Military and having BEEN my first hand experience has lent me to believe that we have accomplished little to nothing.

#2: Suicide bombers and other self destructive terrorists are not Iraqi's, they're outside Muslims from other countries like Saudi Arabia, and Iran. Terrorist groups don't like using their own countrymen to initiate bombings - What sense does it make to conquer a country through terrorism if all the men in it kill themselves? We are feeding fires all over Iran and S.A. through propaganda and news spread all over their radio and TV networks. Remember a guy named Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? He doesn't like us anymore than he likes Isreal. You think he's going to say good things about us to his people?

Lets also take a reality check. Just because Iraqis don't hate us anymore doesn't necessarily mean that they 'trust' us. We are running around with guns and shooting stuff over there. I feel they are more concerned with their own friends and family dying in an explosion than they are about 'stopping terrorism', and justifiably so. If they're turning in insurgents then it's for their own skin- I'd be doing the exact same thing.

#3: We've put our foot into a 2000 year war. Americans know, more than anything else, that you can't kill an idea, and one that's had 2000 years to foster and grow is an unstoppable force. You can't fight a war against terrorism- Violence breeds violence, you know that. We're under attack because of our own damn fault. We didn't have any of these problems until the establishment of Israel and the gold mine in oil discovered under their sands. We're stepping into a war that we have no business treading into and have made many enemies. Rome couldn't stop them. The Crusades couldn't stop them, and neither will we. I'd rather not see innocent blood spilled in any country, but we have to be realistic about this whole thing. We're in more danger now because Captain America (Read George W. Bush) decided to start his own crusade over there, and that's how they see it. Eventually we will leave and when we do the hate we have spread will remain. Obama's Minister said some controversial things, true, but controversy doesn't make them any less true. We are reaping what we have sown, that's all there is to it.

Don't get me wrong in any way shape or form here. I had a good time in the middle east (relatively speaking). The people seemed nice enough, their cab drivers are insane, but hilarious and the Souks are a great place to score expensive items for cheap (they all have the same calculator when they haggle. "The price is this Friend, but for you special offer!").

ZANZA!! Back me up on this!!

Besides, it's amazing how attractive Arab women are over there. It's scary how they can pull off that look with a veil on their head, or often, covering their whole face. (ZANZA!! Don't kill me!! )

This has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton huh? Kinda de-railed this thread, we did. Never the less, good topic to debate.

~W

 

Ok fair, you've been over there which gives you much greater insight into this entire affair. This whole issue is really hard to get a handle on over in the USA because its so distant from the reality that we all live day in and day out that how can we average Americans get a handle on whats REALLY going on.

However, I think the idea that "We made them hate us, if we treated them nice they'd stop and this is all our fault" is really naive.

Americans are hated by alot of the world, why? Because we have money and power. Most of the world doesn't have clean drinking water and we Americans are whining about who wins American Idol.

Couple of things though, no matter how awfully bloated and spoiled Americans may be that is NOT a justification to hate them, just like all the terrorisit attacks in the world are not a justification for hate either.

You're right, violence will only continue violence in the world but guess what, we live in a planet filled with people who do evil things and kill sometimes without even justification. If the US government believes we need to do this to protect the country and for the good of the world then I'm going to trust them more then I'm going to trust al-Queda.

P.S. Yes this is off topic.

Oops.

P.P.S. Thanks a lot for serving in the armed forces. I tried to join but was medically disqualified. lol.

 

I don't brag much about being in the military anymore for a reason.

I'm not going to insinuate that they would be friendly. Extremists never are. However the U.S. has had a huge hand in Israel's creation- We took it from the Palestinians. In the three major subsequent wars we supplies, guns, ammo, armor, and money to Israel.

Now Muslims have been at war over that place for thousands of years. We step in, this baby little country, and take it from them (by force) and give it to their enemies. This IS our fault. That wasn't our decision to make. Or the U.N.s, and right now we've got the biggest guns. The fact we invaded another country over there without any real reason is just another coin in the jar.


...Vote Obama in 08

~W

 

Ok guys, i'd appreciate it if this thread was brought back on to the topic at hand, otherwise i'll ether have to rename it and move it to debates or close the thread itself.

Much appreciated gentlemen.

 

I have sat down and watched about two debates between obama and clinton and in all honesty I agree with wertitis. He is very calm during a debate about anything. I'm voten obama no matter what. Just seems to be the best candidate to pull us from a recession and eventually a depression. Course I could be wrong we could be falling into a downward spiral no matter who we choose but, in my opinion i'd rather fall into a hell hole with obama then clinton. I'd actually keep my skin

 

Unfortunately though the entire Obama campaign seems to lack substance. Lots of talk of "Change" withouth a concrete plan of action or real experiance. I wish he would put some of those excellent oratory skills to use expounding the details of his plan for America, not just that he has one.

 

The Clintons have more skeletons in their closet than Vincent Price.

~W

 

They scare me. I always figured they were the one political clan one should never cross.