Debate Do you think it's worth it to make that punch?

If anyone talks to me irl or over IM machines you'd know I think about this quite often.

Is physical confrontation really necessary? This is my main question.

So many times I look back and think about what could-have happened if i'd held my fist back and not went in there punching. You know? I feel like that it's an animal instinct. The first thing animals do is fight to the death for what belongs to them or to prove who is better. In truth, we all have animal qualities. You know when you see some grown man screwing around with your kid or cursing them and putting their hands on them..Some say call the police, grab the kid away from him. Some say walk up and get his explanation and the best people (in my opinion) just walk up and knock him down.

Why does physical confrontation mean so much and why is it such a urge in all of us? People on these boards can say hey, i've never been in a fight but they can say hey! I was five seconds from loosiinn' my sexxy on that guy.

Is it wrong to believe that sometimes you don't need to talk it out and that you need to make a point? Whether it leads to you being hurt or them? Some may ask me if it's really worth it to just simply make a point but let me ask you..At that point in time, don't you FEEL like it's worth it to make that point?

Maybe i'll edit this later to make more sense but overall you may understand what i'm getting at.

 

It's a part of everything's life. In the animal kingdom, species fight each other for territory or survival. Human beings still wage war for the same reasons. Some of us, such as America and other countries, have reduced themselves to petty physical torture to get what they want or just get their jollies off. It's one of those things that it doesn't matter whether it is necessary or justified, and it will never matter, because it has always been present, it still is, and it always will be. No matter how much humans trying to disassociate themselves from "non-sentient animal creatures", we're just as barbaric, if not moreso, than those.

Overall, an unimportant and inane topic. Nothing will come of it.

 

An outstanding example of human nature utilizing a macroscopic view based solely upon information garnered from high intensity news conduits designed to stimulate and satisfy the very portion of our brains being discussed here.

As much as I value and attempt to hold sacred the opinions and ideals of others, I find it difficult to sit by when the discussion topics derail themselves, falling back to the classic archetype of war as an explanation for human suffering. The sins of the many have been shouldered by the few. It's always about war- Bullying, physical torture, mass bombings, missed targets, innocent civilians, suicide runs; they all all seem to lead back to our childhood days with cops and robbers, violent shows like G.I. Joe and the propaganda machine that taught us to fear others, first outside the country, and, when those people disappear, to content ourselves to fear each other until a new race, somewhere on the other side of the planet, rears its ugly, impoverished head; another group of ignorant savages to slate our lust for blood and power, another war to mask our true emotions, justifying our violent tendencies.

The cynical look upon the television with wide, unblinking eyes, absorbing the information presented to them, feasting upon the flash and imagery like starving animals tearing apart a helpless babe. Their horror escalates as they consume, but only because they are told to. Their minds become as queer as a clockwork orange as they give away their ability to think for themselves to the new god who appeases the reptilian portion of their brain and provides them with the false comfort that they, alone, are apart and different from the rest of the world, from the rest of the savages who prey upon one another in the streets, in the desert, in the tundra. Prime time philosophers who content themselves to five minute new flashes and a quick blurb on Yahoo news shackle us inside the caves of our mind, limiting our reality to the shadows that dance upon the walls. Their amusement and lust for this sacred propaganda is as bottomless as mankind's propensity for greed and destruction. Are we, who vapidly consume such ill begotten stimuli, any more or less ignorant than those who live under totalitarian rule, fed mis-information and dishonesty; their scope of the world limited by, not what they see, but by what they are told.

Assume for a moment that you step outside, away from the testosterone, the sex, drugs, violence and madness and peer into the world without the electric glasses filtering your view of what is real. You move away from corporate sponsorship, sex scandals, and violence that our minds have been trained to see and accept and, instead, look to the world, not on a macroscopic level, but on a microscopic level; that is, instead of looking at groups of people and taking away what has already been filtered for you to view, gaze upon a person by themselves. You'll find something startling, and different. Something with a voice that tries to unseat the preconceived notions of hate and violence without realizing what it is doing.

Everybody sins, everybody hurts others, everybody stings the world with their voice or their fists. People will fight and lose their cool when the world around them pressures them to. But watch them outside of the influence of others. Watch what they do when the pressures of society cease to dictate their actions. You'll find things that give hope and light, brightening the world.

A man who gives change to the poor on a street corner.
A woman who forgoes an abortion, giving life a chance.
A soldier giving food to an impoverished child.
A person relinquishing his place in line for someone who has difficulty standing for long periods of time.
A gangbanger putting his gun down for the sake of his family; his children.
A kitchen who feeds the hungry without profit.
A man or woman who pulls over at the sight of an automobile accident to assist those who may be hurt.

The world is darkened by the actions of the many, but more profoundly, it is lit by the deeds of the individual. A small candle of goodness. These candles stand with one another, unknowingly spreading their light to pierce a bleak and unfortunate world, providing relief. The goodness of our world does not lie in large groups, but rather, in the individual. A great many small things separates us from the bitter world that we perceive as truth. You never see these things on television, the man who gives to charity is never on the news, yet they are there providing solace and comfort none the less.

When people resort to fighting it is because they have been taught that the world revolves around such barbaric intents. They are what sticks in our minds, dragging down our opinions of others. We only remember the pain we have brought upon others. People fight because they have forgotten all else.

What does it say about the man who refuses to raise his fists for such petty means? A person who takes the punishment of the ignorant without so much as a word of anger or hate? A pacifist who accepts the darkness in others and by his inaction, rises above it? Is his message no less important, no less profound, than the ones you hear through the violence propagated by the media? Its transmittal is not diluted to satiate the masses, but concentrated on only a few, shattering our perceptions of what human beings really are. We find the beauty of the human mind and soul revealed. It will rarely make the news. People outside a select few will ever hear its message.

That is what lends it its power. That is what gives it it's meaning.

Physical confrontation is never necessary. Only the lies and the ignorance of a world we have been persuaded into believing is reality spread such a mental disease. To worry and pass the time, concerned with only the violence we see, blinds us to truth. The question that is relevant is what have we done to rise above this influence, to spread our light against such forms of darkness? One man cannot change the world. However, one man can change another. This is the beauty and truth of the human spirit. In a world that threatens to drown us in violence, such a message speaks louder and leaves a more devastating impact upon the individual than any fist, or gun, or bomb, will ever hope to do.

You need to only ask yourself one question: Which action sends the greater, more profound, and more powerful message- A clenched fist, or an open hand?

~W

 

Well, it's good to see that these little things certainly balance out the filth in the world, a world of corrupt individuals who mostly want to better themselves. I am glad to see that if I throw a few quarters at a homeless man, that it will make up for an eleven year old being molested and brutally murdered. All is right in the world. Whereas I may be on one side of the pasture, you are on the side of the sheltered and over-optimistic. That is equally sad and disappointing.

 

You'll never find what you're not looking for. The little things someone does for someone else may not make a difference to you or me, but it means the world to whomever is receiving it. If the world is so black then why continue living? Why bother to raise children if they're only going to be molested and murdered in the end?

But that's not what we do. People continue to live, even if they are scraping the bottom of the barrel. People who have been hurt turn that pain around and use to help others. Rape victims turn their lives around to help others and spread their words of hope and reconcilement. Take an HIV victim who travels from school to school spreading news, facts, and teaching the ignorant about a very real disease: is he or she sheltered and over optimistic? What do they see? How different is the world through the looking glass of someone who's shouldered a weight the rest of us would have difficulty fathoming?

Perhaps they feel that if they can save one life, shield one child from suicide, or save one teenager from having to go through that kind of pain, then they have made all the difference in the world. It's difficult to say if you have not been through those kinds of experiences. Ordinary people become extraordinary through fantastic, improbable experiences.

Not everyone rises to the occasion, and some, perhaps the most downtroddden or cynical fall away, tumbling into oblivion. Not every tragic story has its happy ending. But there's enough to give pause.

What does a few quarters stand in the face of genocide and armed conflict? For the poor man, clothed in society's ills, it means the world. The sacrifice of others, even the smallest amount, sheds a little bit of light. A candle won't light a cave, but it can be enough to guide one person through the darkness.

Rather than attack, at what point do you decide to quit lamenting the bitterness of the world around you. You can't change the world, you most certainly cannot save everyone. You don't climb a mountain in one day. You don't eat an elephant in one sitting. The fact that you haven't thrown yourself from a bridge shows that you see something worth living for.

How do you address a firefighter who runs into a burning building to save a life? Is it because he's getting paid? What amount of money is equal to your own life? If he feels that the fire threatening the building is too dangerous for him to enter he can always opt to remain outside. No one forces him to go inside. It's not his emergency, but the victim's. Why would he do such a foolish thing for a complete stranger?

He does it because he's over optimistic. He's sheltered. He believes that saving that one life, this one person who foolishly left the burner on their stove on, is important enough die over. He knows that it won't mean a thing to the neighbors, to the city, to the country or even the world, but that it means everything to the life trapped inside.

The biggest betrayer of cynical pessimism are the news hours, themselves. Why, after 45 minutes of rape, murder and war, do they bother placing a 10 minute, 'feel good' piece at the end? It's not because they want to perk up the audience. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because it people at home enjoy these kinds of stories. It makes them feel good that somewhere, out there, there are people who are still lighting candles in this world.

All the darkness in the world cannot put out the light of one, single candle. That's all it takes. At what point do you decide to stop doing things for yourself, and begin doing things for others. It's easy to sit at home and mock the world, sneering at people who lay down their fists for an open hand. To sit back, scornfully smiling at people who give a little, calling them sheltered, sad, disappointing. The real challenge is to quit wishing that the grass on your side of the pasture is as green as the grass on the other hill; to go out to make that happen. Change just one person's life. How much darker would our world be if there weren't optimists giving change, or fools running into burning buildings?

~W

 

I can hear myself saying something Matt was saying but not with the same attitude. I think that we should all give kindness as much as possible but when some idiot gives you crap then throw it back. Some things are better left ignored in my opinion but sometimes it can't be that way. I see more children crying in a corner because of the "kill them with kindness" teachings their mother gives than seeing a kid grab that (daddy-issued) bully and slamming his head into a locker. I prefer it overall and it's a dog-eat-dog world, friends. Time for the people who get walked on to do some walking themselves on the people they learned it from. The world needs more kindness than anything..but sometimes you've got to be human.

This hit a sore spot in my heart =/ because I know it is true. Behind my realist attitude I know that every little thing counts but I ALSO know that sometimes humans have to put aside what they know is right to be right. I admire your optimistic attitude. It takes more balls to still want to be a regular John Lennon D) after watching the news every morning than it takes to say %$# happens and continue eating breakfast.

 

Worth it to make a punch?

Depends on the situation. Only you can decide and live with the consequences.

I personally would love to say no but I can't. A punch does work. Look at our history (or believed history) all for the "greater good."

I don't watch the news unless I feel like it or need to. I walk out my front door and see more than enough bad things. Why would I watch horrible things? Makes one think this culture is sadistic.

Everyone does things for themselves. Does it not make a fireman or hero proud to run into a burning building to save someone? Does it make it wrong though? Sometimes I think it does and sometimes I don't. To me the act of doing something for yourself does not make it a "good" act but even if what they did was still a good act. But doing it for others and getting nothing out of it does. There are just to many levels to consider.

There really isn't a true definition for good. It's just a lack of bad. But what makes it bad? A lack of good?

A man who gives change to the poor on a street corner. What if that guy just didn't want to become a productive member of society? Should he get money for sitting on the street when others really need it? Who justifies it?

A woman who forgoes an abortion, giving life a chance. What if she was raped? The child wouldn't really live? Should she still keep a life just because it is a life?

A soldier giving food to an impoverished child. Helping once won't fix the problem. Feel good yeah but doesn't fix the issue. It might even make the situation worse. Plus what if it wasn't the right food cultural wise?

A person relinquishing his place in line for someone who has difficulty standing for long periods of time. Is the person lying? Cheating the system? What gives that person the right over a young mother of three who is caring a kid and having to work 18 hour days? Who decides?

A gangbanger putting his gun down for the sake of his family; his children. And then what if his family dies? Or he does? What happens then? Can he get out of the system with a previous record? Or is he doomed to live that type of life as long as he lives? Can he make a better life from his family working medium wage jobs when doing things against the law is easier? Why do we keep on punishing those who want to change? Why don't we give them a chance? We help the needy and yet prosecute and still prosecute those who did something bad even though they paid their time. What makes them less worthy?

A kitchen who feeds the hungry without profit. Who are the hungry? Those who can't work? Or those who can work and decided not to? Why should we take it away from the real needy?

A man or woman who pulls over at the sight of an automobile accident to assist those who may be hurt. How did it happen? What if it was toxic? What if they cause more harm then good?

Point is all depends on the circumstance. And the person deciding the action. Its up to each of us to decided what kind of person we want to be.

Open up your hand or throw a punch. Who do you want to be? And can you live with either choice?

I know who I am and that I can live with whatever I decide good or bad.

 

My dear, dear Bashi. You seem to have missed my point. The foundations of the world we have built are not made up of lies and deception. If that were the case, such a weak foundation would have crumbled and the world we know would be in ashes.

You're right in that people do things for themselves, and not everybody is as honest as the next. But who are you and I to make that judgment call? Assumptions like that make us no better than the world we seem to vilify. We know nothing about those who do good things, their motives, or those who they help. So to stand back and tell everyone that the glass is half empty and there are ulterior motives in all the good things ins life lumps us together with the rest of the hurtful things that we perceive in the world.

Remember that its not the macroscopic perspective that matters, but the microscopic. It's the things that you do to alter the life and perspectives of others.

You're still raising you boy, right? If the world is as awful as all that, why would you do something like that? Why would you subject him to a world that was inherently evil and deceitful? Is it not because despite what you chose to see, you don't really believe it. Is it really just as simple as a transfer of hopes and dreams to the next generation? Children function as a paradox of our pessimism. I've yet to meet someone who raises their kids so they can grow up and feel the same pain and frustration that their parents felt. You can answer this question better than me. In a world as 'terrible' as ours, why would you raise another life to become another cog in an endless machine of pain and death?

John Lennon I am not. There are times when a raised fist is not uncalled for. Sh*t happens, but that doesn't mean that someone doesn't have a right to protect themselves from personal harm. Rape or Death is intolerable, and no one should simply lay down and accept such acts upon themselves. These are the fights that really matter. It's not a war, or a police action, it's recognizing that a clenched fist has a time and a place. A bar room brawl, or a school yard fight is not one of those places. I've seen more than a few fights in my lifetime and the one that stands out amongst the rest was a kid who absolutely refused to fight back. He kept climbing back onto his feet. After a few times he was too winded to rise back up, but he didn't say anything or swing back. He stole the power from his aggressor by his pacifism. By refusing to come down onto his level he may have gotten stomped, but the victor was clear. It wasn't a fight worth fighting for. Believe me, most of us were wondering what was happening for half the fight, but as his aggressor became frustrated and people began to realize what was going on, you could almost feel the shift in power. As one of my boys told me after the fact "It takes a lot of balls to pull a stunt like that."

People fight for the same reason people rape. It's not a matter of pleasure or satisfaction from the act, it's about power and control over others. When you strip it from your aggressor, the battle has been won. An open fist can carry just as much power as a closed one. That's not to say that if you're being raped you should simply lay back and let it happen as an act of pacifistic resistance. You would be wise to judge when and which fights are worth it.

~W

 

Wert you missed MY whole point.

Used yours to *think* and to turn you're *good* examples into not good. Because the world isn't full of happiness, rainbows, and people doing the right thing or darkness. It's gray. I understand that and live just fine because I know its true and it's fun to live. Be cruel, kind, caring, and etc. I don't care how it happened or why. I accept it and do what I think is right for the time I have left.

Do I see the good in people? Sometimes but I don't expect it and I am never disappointed. Never upset over all the cruel things people do to others. And I am very happy. Whereas some who can only see all the good or hope for it will be disappointed a lot of the time.

So Peachy...Point is all depends on the circumstance. And the person deciding the action. Its up to each of us to decided what kind of person we want to be.

Enough said.

 

No.

Personally allowing myself to physically harm someone is a lack of self control that I just cannot allow. Not only does it put the life of the person you’re attacking at stake, it puts your own future on the line. Why spend time separated from society because a lapse in good judgment? Sometimes the boundaries become warped and all logic you may have used to remedy the situation is thrown out of the window, but I cannot ever justify letting someone cloud my reasoning to the point where I cease acting like an rational adult and resort to childish school ground antics.

Of course these rules only apply if you are the assailant. If you aren't, well one must take the necessary steps to remove themselves from harms way.

 

there are some people in this world who will not let u solve a problem without violence. I have had many confrontations and have had to resort to violence in a few. I prefer to talk but some people will not let u. just as some leaders of countries will not let you ( This is my dads answer)

 

Only out of disrespect Will I through that first punch. I'll like it. Sometimes violence or knocken a guys teeth down his throat is the only way to get through to them to cut there ****. If the guy won't listen to you to stop what he's doing, ya warn him are you wrong for putting him in his place or should he be giving you a golden shower all over ya selfworth.

Peachy said it's a dog eat dog world. I know damn well thats the truth in my life. I might have had a rougher life or just seen things differently but I say there's always going to be a need for violence. People will if they don't get there way always step out of line to achieve it. Now am I putting everyone in this lil hell hole soup together. No. I just see that people do anything to make there own happyness come true.