Debate Elitism

Is there justification in elitism? Intellectually? Socially? Monetarily? Are these the same?

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As someone who goes to a school for academically gifted students, I admit to being a bit of an intellectual elitist. It is a public school that draws students from all over the state, and many politicians have been trying to get rid of our school based on the claim that it is elitist. I have noticed that many of classmates tend to adopt a sense of superiority over their peers, and sometimes I wonder if this attitude is merely a defense mechanism. We came to this school because we felt isolated from our peers, were bored, and wanted to be somewhere with people like us.

Yet, as my class prepares to enter college, we realize how much more isolated we will be once we leave what we call the "Academy bubble." We have all gone through a collegelike experience already minus the partying. We know stress on a level that no person our age should have to experience. How we will be able to relate to the freshmen at the college of our choice? Most of us wouldn't change the choice we made in coming here if we were given the oppourtunity, but we realize that we have been forced to mature mentally much earlier than our peers in general.

If we are constantly told that we are gifted and special, see that we are isolated from the rest of those our age, is it fair for us to want to think ourselves at a higher level?

 

Thinking of yourself of being a higher intelligence person is, by now, going to be part of your personality. The choice is weather you really want to project that on other people around you, cause in my experience thats basically what most elitists do.
There probably isn't anything wrong with being elitist, as long as you don't go out and point out to your peers that you are better then they are, they are probably already aware of that and they really don't need to be reminded of that, and this is what could lead you to be shunned by them.
Theres is probably nothing wrong with having to mature faster then other people your age, although you may miss out on a few things, when it comes to the crunch later in you achademic life, you will have the experience to deal with this kind of pressure while others will be going through it for the first time.
In general i think that elitism is really about how the person with the most experience projects themselves to other people around them. They either act like snobby little gits who put their peers down for not having gone through this before. Others might not be and will either keep to themselves or help others around them with the experience that they have.

 

If it is a public school then how can they say no to people who are not smart?
Now, elitism. A load of nonsense. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favoured treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
This should never be the case. It is one thing to know you are smarter than someboy. It is another to be condescending or have better treatment because of it.
I know i'm very intelligent but it is very wrong to look down on others because of it. Projecting such a opinion is flat out wrong.
you may have been told that you are special a lot. I got that crap too in secondary, it's nonsense. You or anybody is no better than anybody else.

What stress are you under that you shouldn't be? What xactly did you do at the school?



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What's with this line thing?

 

It is public in the sense that it is state run, and doesn't cost anything besides book fees. You have to go through an application process to get in that includes recommendations, taking the SAT, and an interview. They do this not so much to make sure we are all some type of genius or something, but to see if we want to and are able to learn at an accelerated pace. Yes, you can be rejected based on poor grades and such, but they try to take a more rounded view when looking a people to accept.

Okay, I was looking for a reaction, and I'm glad that I got one. We all think it's a load of bull when they lecture us on how special and gifted we are. They have conducted many research studies on us, and pretty much all they've gotten is that we become depressed, kill ourselves, are prefectionists, or are eccentric more than normal high schoolers. I don't really believe that I am better than anyone. I know that given the chance and motivation that anyone could succeed in what I have done. I do find some people stupid, but that is more on a personality level. Somedays I really do wonder how certain people make it here though. It's not so much that I look down on others as less than me, but that I am unable understand where they are at in their heads. I hate blank stares and having people shy away from me just because they assume that they cannot compete with me on an intellectual level. I do not condescend to others unless they do the same to me, most of the time I just want someone to talk to.

Sigh, enough homework to kill a person. We generally have between 6-8 classes where the teachers assume that their class in the most important and assigns at least a 1-2 hour assignment. Homework here is not something that you can blow off either. It usually has a large impact on your grade, and late work is only accepted by the most merciful of teachers. If your grades slip you are forced to go home, which they like to call "Requested to withdraw," since it is nicer sounding. Resisting their request is an academic death wish, because they'll make your life hell until you leave. Then they require us to do community service and get so many hours helping with school things. This year with all of the college applications, most of us seniors were completely burned out. With the record applicants across the country, many of us had to face a rejection or two that we thought coming to this school would help prevent. Yet we have no time to lie in bed crying over that, because there is always something more to do. I consider myself lucky if I get to bed by 1 in the morning, and I have to get up at 6:45. People running on hour cat naps between classes is not rare, and if we breakdown we get sent to the school psychologist. Many of us are far away from home, and I only get to see my family once a month. Stress is addicting though, because if we don't have an assignment looming, we just sit there a complete loss on what we should do with ourselves. I really do wonder how many of us will become drug addicts later in life, because don't know how to cope with real freedom. Many of my friends aren't that far off when they describe this place as like a prison or a mental institution. Yet we always come back. It's really hard to explain.

 

The S.A.T.s are exams now?
What age did you have them at?
To just get into the secondary school or do you arrive in whatever year you want?

Sure that is why I gave one.

That's ok, I find few people to be intelligent...
Personality can be a big thing...Hmm, also there are many types of intelligence, even social and the rate at which you absorb something.
Anyway, what do you want to go in uni?

Oh my, I don't imagine everybody there to have great personalities.

Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
I wouldn't even go near the Irish 'smart' places, CTYI - It is school that you go to when you are not going to your other school - etc and they are supposed to be great fun.
Why do you go back tbh, just go to a normal school... That said, you are finished now.

 

You can only apply around the age of 15, so during your sophomore year. The school is a junior and senior residential high school. I am going to major in Anthropology at Tulane, so I am going to have to deal with a different type of elitism with all of the wealthy East Coasters who come to New Orleans. I make friends well, so I should be okay even though I am going on tons of financial aid.

The reason I mentioned this example of my school is that I wanted to know how people felt about the possible dangers of creating an elitist atmosphere. Thankfully most of us at this school don't take the "You are the intellectual future" stuff and whatnot very seriously, but what if some of us did? Is this an attempt to make a new class out of us students? Could creating a sense of superiority in a group end very badly for them and the rest? Or is this a normal state of society?

 

I can sympathize with you. I've spent over a year and a half doing 14 hour days (minimal) learning nuclear physics for my job in the military. I know about the stress, the long hours and losing your mind because of the towering amount of work you have to do to get through the program.

We've been fed the "You are the smartest and brightest the Navy has to offer" line about a dozen times per day, and after a while all it does is aggravate you. Being held to a higher standard is only a pain in the ass.

The differences between you and I, though, is that my schooling was for a direct purpose. I wasn't doing it just because everyone thought we were smarter, we did it because we were going to go out into the fleet and operate nuclear power plants. The goal behind the madness was so that it would teach us how to do a very specific job. Your schooling seems to be there just to "academically challenge" you. If people are getting turned down for their college applications it seems like your school is simply there to drive you ballistic.

The only positive thing I can see with regards to this place is that it will get you into a mindset where you will be able to effectively get through college with less headaches that some others. You've been programming your brain to study a certain way, so when you get to college it will be a breeze (unless you decide to go to a particularly intellectually heavy college, in which case you might be in for more of the same).

Many times parents of children who are less "gifted" (or who simply don't care as much as the next) use this argument. Not every person is as smart as the next, but every parent thinks their kid is. So when their kid doesn't perform as well as others, or isn't accepted into a school such as yours they kick and flail claiming elitism among other things. I've seen this from personal experience, and it's a little irritating. Not everyone can be the best and parents get upset when their kids fail to perform at the level they want them to. If they can't blame the teachers then they blame the system.

Tar nailed the definition on the head- The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

I assume that in your case you are asking about elitism based upon your perceived knowledge and educational superiority over others.

I'll just say that those who put in the time and effort to better themselves either physically, mentally or both, deserve to get the chance at superior schooling, and better educational opportunities than those who only put in half the effort. Because of the heavy amount schooling you have gone through it is my belief that you have proven that you can be taught anything and that because of the extreme amount of effort you have put into furthering yourself, you are entitled to bigger and better opportunities than the standard student.

It's not elitism when you've earned what you have, and the right to better opportunities, through your own trial of fire.

~W

 

If there's already a school in that district, then they can choose their students.

(I.E. Boston Latin School, Boston Latin Academy)

At least the wealthiest stay in New England and Upstate New York.

 

My personal opinion, being I'm a narcissistic elitist myself, is that many are cocky to hide their always evident inferiority complexes. Example, most 'elitists' I know happen to be 20-something year old men who've never had sex, can't get a date and hate their jobs - but - since they are beyond the intellectual norm, they consider themselves superior.

For me, I just like me. I really do. I'm the shiz. Maybe its a lack of self confidence or maybe I'm in love with myself [hence my claim of narcissism].

 

Heh, very astute.

I'm quite sure that a number of people I've known in the past have perceived me as being elitist in one way or another (and I know exactly who's going to reply to that ). I know there was a long period when I actively encouraged that perception, and probably for the very reasons Chance outlined above.

In recent years, I've been trying to discard that mentality, or at least as much of it as I've been able to identify. I think it's been a really destructive element in my life. Personal tastes, hobbies, interests, beliefs, or even legitimate talents and skills are pretty stupid reasons for looking down on others. If I don't like it when people sneer at my hobbies or the things I'm interested in, that doesn't give me license to do the same to them in return...it only makes me a hypocrite, if I do.

I think the ideal attitude to have is the one that was conveyed so eloquently by that bunch of white-haired colonists a couple centuries back: that "all men (and women) are created equal". We're all human, and none of us are inherently or fundamentally superior to others.

Now, that doesn't mean we have no right to disagree on things, that all ideas and opinions are equally valid, or that there is no true definition of right and wrong. But that's an entirely different topic, altogether.

[berry]
bah, too easy to oblige you =p btw, take out the animated sig image. i don't wanna be mean to you =p
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Whoa there stud, don't be putting words into their mouths now. It reads

Nowhere does it mention Women, Blacks, Indians, Jews, Persians, Asians, Italians, Irish and it most certainly excludes Atheist (for whom there is no creator) to simply name a few. Such philosophies have sprung up in recent years to include anyone and everyone regardless of race, gender or creed.

The man who wrote that, Thomas Jefferson, owned (and had carnal relations with) several slaves. Imagine the moxy to write such profound and specific words with the intent of turning them to hypocrisy by maintaining indentured servitude in his own household.

An interesting case of elitism in of itself.

~W

 

With all due respect, it seems like you're the one putting words into others' mouths. I meant my use of parenthesis in my line quote to indicate that I was adding that part, but maybe I should have been clearer.

Of course I'm aware of the legal status of slavery at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. However, as you so clearly pointed out, the line's exact wording was "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Taking those words at face value, I don't see any language in there that excludes any of the racial subcategories you mentioned, either. I'm sure you're not implying that blacks, Indians, Jews, Persians, Asians, Italians, Irish and/or atheists are not encompassed by the phrase "all men"?

But in any case, this is irrelevant. I was merely using the quote in an attempt to illustrate the philosophy I'm trying to live up to.