G-Force, Guardians of Space

Discussion in 'Gatchaman' started by Dirk Daring, Jul 3, 2004.

  1. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    Well you can guess where i got my username from lol. This was the show that introduced me to Gatchaman back when it premiered on CN in 1995. One of the reasons why i registered too,cuz i figured there would be a Gatcha-anything following around here since Gatchaman fans are few and far in between. So,to get to the point, are there any fans on the often-overshadowed 2nd US dub of Gatchaman I,G-Force GoS? If not then can you at least give me your opinion on it? Also, i have a few G-Force questions since i havent seen the show since CN booted it off the air (1997 i think)....

    1)Just how edited was G-Force from Gatchaman I? Before you ask ive read almost every piece of info there is about Gatchaman and its dubs out there on the net,meaning all the fansites and what not but they never go in depth with G-Force except when ******** on it and i would like to hear from someone who remembers the show more than me or someone who simply knows. I already know that all the BOTP-specific stuff was removed,just all original footage.

    2)If anyone knows, in what condition is the G-Force footage in nowadays? I know from word-of-mouth (and from seeing on Boomerang) that the BOTP footage is really in bad shape,almost barely watchable (i heard it was from all those years locked in the vault so to speak) while the Gatchaman I footage is in much better shape due to it being remastered and released on laserdisc more than a decade ago and recently on DVD (wonder if it has been remastered for DVD as well. I could imagine the quality :dizzy2: ). But i dont remember or know in what condition the G-Force footage was in. Hopefully not as bad as BOTP........

    3)How close of a translation in terms of storyline,dialogue and voices was G-Force to Gatchaman I?

    4)Which is your opinion on the G-Force theme song?

    5)Who owns the rights to G-Force at this time? Is it possible for it to air on CN again (i already heard that Anime Network will air it but still)?

    I hope i can get answers to my questions. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. Meridian

    Meridian New Member

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    What a lot of questions!

    Starting at 1...
    The cuts in G-Force were quite strange. In some episodes, inter-team violence was cut - for example, Joe and Ken both hit Jun but Dirk and Ace never hit Aggie, Nambu hit Ken but Brighthead doesn't hit Ace. But other violent things, such as Red Impulse beating up Ace when he's moping over the loss of Aggie, are left intact. Most if not all of the battle scenes are left intact.

    I believe the makers decided they had to make some cuts to some episodes, and that they then had to make cuts to all the other episodes to make them the same length. So from most other episodes what will be missing is a perfectly innocuous scene which happens to have been the right length to cut. For example, a scene of washing hanging out to dry in ghetto type streets which would have been part of the location introduction in Gatchaman; or Joe agonising over whether to shoot a herd of deer which happen to be in the way of a mech. Because of this, most cuts make no sense.

    2. There are G-Force episodes on the earlier BOTP DVD releases from Rhino. However, they've decided not to include any more episodes in more recent releases, and in future will be concentrating on BOTP only with subtitled Gatchaman moving to ADV. There have been 2 recent DVD releases of G-Force in the UK and the video quality on those was fine. But one is part of a box set which contains only the first 6 episodes, and the other is titled G-Force and only contains the first 3 episodes. I think only 6 have been mastered for DVD because that happens to be the same number as Rhino already released first.

    3. Pretty close, but not exact. Dirk's family history is a bit more convoluted than Joe Asakura's since the story of his family being assassinated has been softened. Galactor doesn't have Katse's gender "gifts" and the relationship between Galactor and Computor really isn't the same as between Katse and X. The rest of it is pretty close though.

    4. You don't want to know. Although I thought the music got more bearable in the 2 episodes where the Gatchaman music was entirely removed, because at least there was the occasional bit of variation in its pounding backbeat.

    5. I think I read that it might be Sandy Frank these days, but I'm not sure.
     
  3. Melek Taos

    Melek Taos New Member

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    Now heres a morbid thought....

    Basing it upon the BOTP movie, the new production of BOTP will be different

    -No Hoyt Curtin, instead we get a pop theme tune.

    -More violence (still a few bits missing though)

    -Less Zark and space shots.

    Isnt this going to end up looking like GoS??
     
  4. Mark

    Mark G-Force Commander

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    Welcome Dirk!

    G-Force: GoS is indeed owned and copyrighted by Sandy Frank.

    Dirk, when you asked our opinion on the theme song, do you mean the song that opens each episode, or that back-beat that is constantly played during the episodes? If it's the back-beat...then I will also say that you don't want to know!

    I have a bad taste in my mouth about this series because I grew up with BotP, and one day I discovered BotP was gone...just completely gone and I was crushed! Later, I saw GoS and was very disappointed because I was told it was going to be the return of BotP. Of course, this was not the case.

    Also, from what I've seen on the first six BotP DVDs where you can compare all three series, it looks like that GoS actually has the best quality.
     
  5. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    When i was talking about the theme song i meant the opening theme song, not the infamous synth backbeat because i already know that its universally despised :D .Anyways i posted again because,for the first time ever since CN took it off the air i saw a G-Force episode! (Warning: this might be long) I downloaded the first episode "The Robot Stegosaur" (please dont hold the means of me getting this episode against me.). I already had the G-Force intro video which i got from Toonami Arsenal but it was in HORRIBLE quality but at least i got to see something G-Force related. But when i saw the intro to the ep i d/l it looked 100X bigger and better and sounded way better too. Apparently it was a DVD rip (possibly from the BOTP DVD's or the G-Force DVD'd i dunno) because there was no way that a TV rip would look or sound this good. Even though it was a DVD rip,the quality of the footage was at best "broadcast quality" or in other words exactly how it looked on a proper TV feed,except it looked clearer because im viewing it on a computor (lol) monitor. I saw graininess and what not that you would see on old footage,and at times the footage would turn dark and grainy(almost on BOTP level) but still it looked better than most BOTP episodes ive seen and the footage was overall very watchable (i also d/l the corresponding BOTP ep "Attack Of The Space Terrapin and it appeared to be one of the better quality BOTP eps and the "remastering" really showed with dithered,but full colors and brighter picture. At times it looked better than the G-Force footage admittedly.). I think the G-Force footage wasnt remastered because unlike BOTP it wasnt in dire need of remastering and the G-Force footage was still in decent,viewable condition.Either that or Rhino didnt want to bother remastering a little-known series..........
     
  6. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    Well anyways i saw the ep and noticed that it was really more violent than BOTP (in which the corresponding episode cut every bit of violence out,especially the fight against the Galactor goons. Zark even tried to explain that the Birdarang sonic waves caused Galactor's men concussions when it clearly slit their throats LOL),and heard the infamous backbeat (which is really the backbeat to the G-Force opening theme). LOL i do agree that its used too damn much (used to fill in every silent moment so its either original Gatchaman music or the backbeat LOL. Sometimes they omitted Gatchaman music and inserted the backbeat.) and that it does clash badly with the original symphonic Gatchaman score. I do faintly remember hearing a different kind of backbeat on one of the last episodes (a ep where Peewee falls for some little girl). Guess the G-Force production team was really on a short budget. The voice acting was decent (although i couldnt tell the difference between Dirk and Hooty's VA's at times. I preferred BOTP's Tiny's VA. It really fit the character well.) but the dialogue was kinda mediocre and amaturiesh (I find it annoying that when characters are talking to each other they include each others names in every sentence. Sometimes the emotion they put into the dialogue is just.....not there. Case in point:Ace when he transforms. It sounds cheesy and forced and the VA sounds bored. I remember the transformation sequence sounding WAY better in later episodes.) Sometimes they added in lines when originally they didnt even talk at all (im going by what i saw in BOTP since i never seen Gatchaman).
     
  7. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    I definiely noticed better character interaction and more sensible sounding dialogue than in BOTP but i noticed in the G-Force ep they cut some scenes off (once again,going by what i saw in BOTP but BOTP is notorious for splicing in scenes from different eps so i dont know. They werent violent scenes in any ways,just extra scenes of the characters talking. Perhaps this is what you were talking about Meridian.) I too now agree that the relationship between Katse and Sosai X is diffrent here (X is merely a consultant here while Katse is the head honcho). Katse's voice actor sounds better here with his demeaning,gravelly voice.Better than his BOTP counterpart. Saw the closing credits,brought back some more memories. Awesome Gatchaman artwork instead of scenes from episodes (is that artwork official?). Going by the credits it looks like either many other people were unaccounted for or very few people were part of this project. I wanted to post more questions but its obvious ive written enough as i had to split my reply into 3 posts to hopefully not drive away anyone so later.........
     
  8. Meridian

    Meridian New Member

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    I always thought it was funny the way the names of the voice actors didn't appear in the credits ;)
     
  9. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    Hmm Mark, you seem to have been around back when BOTP and G-Force first aired (which i certainly havent, im only 17). So i have a question to ask you: did G-Force air its entire run when it first premiered or was it when it premiered on CN in 1995 that its aired all of its eps? Oh yeah, and im back with a few more questions in addition to my other ones since activity on this particular board is nil LOL......

    1)Which dub's VA's did you prefer and agreed that fit the original characters best: G-Force or BOTP?

    2)Which dub do you think had the better opening and closing animation and theme song: G-Force or BOTP?

    3)For those of you who are fans to exclusively one dub, explain why you prefer it to the other.

    4)Which dub,despite not all existing episodes airing on either, do you think had the best closure/last episode: G-Force or BOTP?

    5)In what condition is the Gatchaman I footage nowadays? Im asking this because with me i have a clip of the Gatchaman I opening (you know, with the "dare da" song) and the video quality in it is STUPENDOUS. Sharp, vibrant picture and colors that looks miles better than the video quality ive seen so far in BOTP and G-Force. It truly looks beautiful. Is this the remastered footage from the laserdisc releases that ive heard about? I know the series was re-relased on DVD later on as well, does the video quality carry on from the laserdisc releases. I hope the footage i saw wasnt remastered for just a trailer because if its as good as i saw than that means good news for the ADV Gatchaman release weve heard so little about so far...........

    Well, thats all my questions................ for now LOL. I know some of you must be annoyed by all these questions and my chapter-long posts but i cant help it! This is a result of not finding any other place on the net to ask these questions without the remote possiblility of getting an answer. Hope i wont fare the same here. I want to thanks those so far who have answered my questions and posted and what not (Meridian and Mark). I really appreciate it.I wont hold it against any of you if you dont answer these questions and let this thread sink into the depths of time (which going by the traffic on this board wont happen for a few years LOL), but i would really appreciate it if you do since i have nowhere else where i can possibly get sensible answers (or any answers at all) than here. And if you dont, well ill blast you into pieces with a bird missle!!! :D Well, so long for now...........
     
  10. Mark

    Mark G-Force Commander

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    Hi Dirk. For your very first question: only a few episodes (13 maybe?) of G-Force aired when it first appeared on WTBS in 1985. It was not until it reappeared on The Cartoon Network that the entire series was run. I was seven years old when BotP came on the air and 14 for GoS, so yep...they are fresh memories.

    One of the reasons GoS failed in 1985 is many fans thought that it was BotP coming back, and were extremely disappointed when it was something different. Confusion compounded when they used the same name of the team and the same name of the ship, but different character names and voices. I didn't have cable back then, so I didn't experience this. Plus, in my opinion, except for the translation, it's an inferior product. (I don't mean to offend you in the slightest!!!)

    I'm afraid that if I (at least) answered all your questions, I would be putting BotP on top for each one. I'm biased by nostalgia, and nostalgia runs deep in my blood. (Why else would I prefer the Superfriends over Justice League?) I will say that the translation for GoS is more in tuned to Gatchaman than BotP and is interesting to listen to. But I will also say that the voice acting and music is far superior in BotP, and not just compared to GoS. I have yet to see any cartoon that comes close to topping the voice acting and music from BotP. It really is exceptional work, and was ahead of its time to be appreciated when it debuted.

    Mark
     
  11. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    Thanks for the answers Mark. And i totally respect your opinion (so dont hold back) even though i despise BOTP,but as i watch more episodes i admittedly do find it growing on me. Maybe its because i dont have access to any G-Force or Gatchaman stuff either around my way or on the net. Im also starting to "see the light" so to speak as far as G-Force:GoS goes and am slowly starting to resent it as time goes by due to me noticing its flaws,not just because ive grown old enough to notice them,but also because ive seen much more anime and their respectful dubs since i first saw G-Force. I wish i was able to thoroughly compare and constrast all 3 series, but its all out of my reach, as GoS will probably never be entirely released on DVD due to its obscurity but the oher 2 series are definitely looking up with Rhino probably continuing to release BOTP eps and Gatchaman hopefully being released in its entirety by ADV. Theres still a bit of hope for G-Force if ADV does come around to airing it on the Anime Network like they said,but what ive heard about the Anime Network and its continuity and schedule shuffling concerning the shows they air almost drowns those hopes. I dont even get the Anime Network here in NYC! :sad: I hope i can keep this thread up, i would really like to hear other people's opinions........
     
  12. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    Wow, i struck gold again. I found yet another G-Force episode over the net! "Its episode 6 "The Micro-Robots", the last of the G-Force eps included in the BOTP DVDs. Sadly, this DVD rip was definitely not as good as the earlier "The Robot Stegosaur" rip because 1)Its letterboxed to hell and the picture often distorts, 2)The volume of the video is loud to the point of distortion. I have to put the volume physically way down in order to listen to the ep properly. Even then it sometimes sound distorted. The video quality was excellent though,better than the last episode.

    With this ep my faith and nostalgic preference of G-Force dropped even more. The shows' low budget roots definitely showed here. The narrator at the beginning of the ep sounded amatureish and way out of place. And of course, the synth backbeat was in full force here.When the episode got quiet and you could really hear the backbeat playing i realized how god-awful it sounded and how it dominated most of the episode (possibly omitting some original Gatchaman music in the process). The VA's were way off in this ep and sounded like they were just reading the lines and nothing else. Its not the VA's that were bad (well,some of them were coughHootycough),its their voice direction which sucked which can be blamed either on the voice director listed on the credits (Fred Ladd,who also translated this dub),the low budget or the inexperience of the VA's. Lot o' violence here cut from BOTP and like the first episode a lot of stock footage was used (cleverly i might add,by changing the background but keeping the same animation in). But my biggest suprise of this episode was hearing Peewee utter the word "Bastard". I was like WTF? Did they allow words like that to air on kids shows back in the 80's after SaP forced Sandy Frank to chop up BOTP? I dont think its even acceptable today,worse i heard (apart from CN's Adult Swim of course) was "sucks" on Yu Yu Hakusho on Toonami. Wonder if the rest of the show has strong language here and there. Impressive.
     
  13. Mark

    Mark G-Force Commander

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    Interesting, Dirk. Would you still say that GoS is your favorite Gatchaman incarnation, or are you leaning towards another one? Maybe the original itself?

    Have you given any thought about picking up a region free DVD player? That way you could pick up the GoS DVDs from amazon.co.uk.
     
  14. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    Well Mark, im kinda undecisive right now as i remember very little of G-Force (since its been almost 10 years since ive seen it entirely) and unlike most cartoons from my youth i dont think ill be seeing this on TV ever again (i still have hope though). I havent seen one complete ep of Gatchaman either (but i know theres a strong possibility that i'll be my preferred version if i get to view it ever without seeing BOTP & G-Force). I wont be picking up those UK G-Force DVD's though,because as previously mentioned they only contain 3 eps (to which i have seen their BOTP equivalents already and have tired of them) and there not enough to "feed my hunger" so to speak LOL.

    I must admit that i am warming up gradually to BOTP,as the music score and voice acting really is superior to GoS (although i prefer most of GoS' VA's but BOTP's are still great) but the hacking of the original storyline and characters (sure Keyop is a barrel of laughs sometimes,but knowing that he was originally human beforehand almost ruins his character for me), the HORRID ready room sequences and sometimes incomprehensible story due to hacking and what not pushes me away. Im still giving it a chance though. Mark, do you know if the rest of the BOTP eps will be released on DVD?
     
  15. Mark

    Mark G-Force Commander

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    The rest of the BotP DVDs will be released in boxed sets, Dirk. Supposedly, the next one is in August. Of course, if you have that region free DVD player, you can pick up the whole series in one shot for about US$120 on amazon.co.uk.

    The Ready Room sequences were something of a disappoinment for both Jameson Brewer and Sandy Frank. They were hoping to have more time to animate them and make them look like the original Gatchaman (along with all the Zark scenes) and to have variations and not the same thing over and over again, but there just wasn't enough time. Even as a seven-year-old, I wondered why the characters looked different in these scenes. And continuity was an issue as well. There are several scenes where Mark calls Zark in civilian clothes, but shows up on the viewscreen in his G-Force uniform. That is very naughty in my book!!!
     
  16. Meridian

    Meridian New Member

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    I can think of a good fanfic excuse for the lack of costuming continuity? That when calling on the wristbands, it applies an image of the birdstyle over the civvies in order to protect their so-important civillian identities? But that's only covering up what happened in the series...
     
  17. Dirk Daring

    Dirk Daring New Member

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    I doubt that Hanna-Barbera could have come close to mimicking the uncanny style of Gatchaman even if they had all the time in the world with those ready room sequences (although i admit they veeeeeery vaguely did). They should have stuck with stock footage of the original ready room or something. At least the Zark sequences were tolerable...........
     
  18. Melek Taos

    Melek Taos New Member

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    In the Movie...In the Movie...not anywhere else....<punch>
     

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