Saber Marionette Impressions - Five Years Later

Discussion in 'Manga and Anime' started by BakaMattSu, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    4,871
    Likes Received:
    122
    What I find interesting about being a long term fan of anything is how many new perspectives I can achieve and how many new details I can find in media I've become intimately familiar with.

    It's noticing new things I didn't before, like when I pop in Star Wars for the hundredth time and finally spot that one alien in the back of the cantina I didn't see during my 99 previous viewings.

    It's also looking at the material with new eyes, like re-reading a murder mystery novel after you find out whodunit. All the slight clues and red herrings dropped throughout the story suddenly stand out vividly clear, where many of them went unnoticed before.

    In the case of Saber Marionette, my most recent viewing had me drift into a fresh self-evaluation of the three anime series. I've long touted SMJ as the untouchable pinnacle of the anime form. I've regarded SMJ Again as a shorter, not-as-fulfilling, but nevertheless entertaining sequel. And I've also made it clear more than once that J to X was "okay", always taking it as a personal disappointment. I've gone off into more tangential rants and discussions about subjects than should really be healthy over a 13-year old animated work, but I haven't really stopped to do checks and balances for some time now. I wondered if my opinions still held true to those from years ago - and also decided to break them down. Overanalysis, I'm sure, but it's an enjoyable activity on occasion for me so...I'm going to interview myself and see where I stand today by the answers I give.


    Let's begin with a logical starting point - Saber Marionette J. Are you still as fanatical over this material as you were 10 years ago?

    I still enjoy it as much as I did way back when I first viewed it. The last time I had a spot of text to describe it in a textual sense, I summed it up in a single word, and that word was "emotion". If I was asked to use more words, I would say that it has "something for everyone". Comedy, Romance, War, Action, Soul, Intrigue. SMJ still appeals to me because it literally tickles every one of my fancies. It's a series that doesn't fully take itself seriously at some points, but feels emotionally turbulent and real at others. It's rare to find something that can hit both the high and low points so effectively for me. There's just something about the way it all comes together so intricately and perfectly, that I can find very little that I could cut from the series that I would deem insignificant. I feel that every event, minor or major, contributes in its own way, and the sum is far greater with all the parts intact.


    But why SMJ? I can think of a string of anime titles that contain such an emotional "horn of plenty", many in your list of favorites. What makes SMJ so endearing?

    The animated style certainly contributes. Had the simplified and less emotional gripping designs of say... J to X been used, I think the emotional impact would have been lessened.

    There's also the flawless pacing and collation of certain events. If you've ever heard of "comedic timing", I think that's the sort of direction I'm speaking to. With comedic timing, the payoff of the joke is dependent on the comedian delivering the line at just the right moment. Maybe he needs to take a heartbeat to let words sink in before delivering the punchline, maybe he has to belt it out quickly to strike before you can gather your wits and process his words. I think there's somewhat of an equivalent at work here. If there is such a thing as "dramatic timing", SMJ has it.

    And then there's the gravity of the major emotional events. Prime examples are Tiger's desperate suicidal attack in Faust's name, the climax of a tale of unrequited love. There is Faust's own breakdown when he fails at achieving what he gave up his humanity for. Another would be the all pivotal Otaru-tricked-and-shot-out-of-an-escape-pod and the goodbye leading up to the ultimate loving sacrifice - willingly surrendering one's life for another. There are others, but what each has in common is their emotional consequence.


    Speaking of sacrifice, that's an ongoing theme that creeps up in each of the animated series. In SMJ, the three girls leave to trade their own lives for the rest of Terra II. In J Again, Marine gives up hers to prevent a plantwide disaster. In J to X, the girls again willingly give up their lives in a race to save Earth. You hold SMJ as high and emotional, yet all three have essentially equivalent climaxes. Why do you find the first instance superior to the latter two?

    This is a question that I've thought long and hard about. The best overall way I can explain is identical to the previous question's answer - style and direction, mainly.

    To get more specific, in J Again's case, it is really a case of lacking emotional investment on Marine's part. In the brief period I got to know her, there was little time to form an attachment. Her brief lines of speech and timid personality give little insight into Marine herself, and I oddly found more emotional impact in how Lime was personally affected rather than the loss of Marine herself. It may be harsh, but I found Marine to be little more than a marionette version of "Squirrely", Lime's pet animal from the original series. That may have something to do with how Marine feels closer to a plot device for the overarching JAgain story than an actual character.

    To tell the truth, I'd say the higher emotional point of J Again for myself is found very early on, with Lorelei's redemption plot. Her personal regret and attempted suicide held more weight for me than Marine's later death.

    For J to X, the sacrifice just didn't seem personal enough. After Hess's big reveal that he intends to destroy Earth, the three girls are quick to give chase, knowing they wouldn't be making it back. But why go at all? What was the personal connection? In J and J Again, they had friends and "family" close at hand to give motivation. In J to X, Earth was essentially a planet of strangers, one that hadn't even been in contact with Terra II for over 300 years. There wasn't emotional weight because its credibility was on thin ice from the very start. Each marionette had two lives at this point in time. Their split second decision to throw all that away to attempt to save the lives of faceless people borders on the unbelievable. Superman tackling Doomsday and dying to protect the planet Earth is emotionally gripping. Superman leaving Lois forever in order to save millions of lives on the newly discovered planet Genericus is less so.

    Further adding to the suspension of belief is the fact that Otaru unconditionally stands there and lets them go in J to X. Compare and contrast to J where he's absolutely helpless, hammering at the escape pod glass and freaking out. Absolutely no resistance in J to X... I understand he's had a tremendous change of persepctive regarding his relationship with the three at this point, but come on! He stands aside and just watches them go without the slightest form of protest. Hell, I think the scene would have had more impact if Otaru hadn't been present. At least then he'd have an excuse for being so passive!

    Finally, the fact that the whole plot covers familiar ground robs it of more potency. We had an ultimate act of sacrifice in J and it was magically reset shortly after. J to X is essentially a repeat, but the outcome feels less uncertain the second time around. The scene is a rerun, and we're (at least I was) 95% certain they're going to survive. When a magic reset is expected it makes any emotional investment difficult, if not impossible.

    The impact of the animated style, or lack thereof in this case, is a factor as well. J to X uses simplified designs of the characters. They lost a lot of emotional edge in that simplification. The classical rough animation found in J gave off more of a human touch. Everything in J to X has a very solid, vibrant coloring to it, with everything "cutesy"-fied. That emits a sterile mood for me.


    It seems you harbour displeasure over more than just a sacrificial theme. Where is this negativity for J to X coming from?

    If we roll back the beginning of J to X we have what is essentially filler for the first third of the series. You could argue they are establishing shot pieces to provide an entry point for newcomers. You could also argue the importance of the character pieces (3, 6-9), but with the exception of Bloodberry's story with Akashi (and perhaps Cherry's foray into "motherhood"), there isn't really anything important lost if the episodes are dropped.

    I think my biggest roadblock to liking the beginning of J to X is being led to believe that back at the end of J that the girls have reached maturation. In order to serve as Lorelei's replacements, the maiden circuits were required to reach a complete state of maturity. We saw this most visibly in Lime, but by the end of saber beast Leopard's attacks, it is readily apparent that all three marionettes have made that journey to complete maturity. So here we are two series later, and we're still seeing continued development. I suppose the concession I have to make is that the girls are continuing to grow, much like any human would - there is no such thing as 100% completion. Even putting that aside, we're still fed a number of side stories as a start, and it's a weak showing not to have any sort of story hooks in place.


    Then what DID you like about J to X?

    My favorite portion of J to X is actually the mini storyline that runs through 10-13 (The Rebirth of Gartlant). I've always loved Faust as a villain due to how I see him as a sort of tragic hero. There is good in him that has been corrupted over years of dedication to a sole cause, and picking out the major turning points in his behaviour during J was always entertaining. The other dynamic I enjoyed was discovering what the saber dolls would do with their internal conflicts - they went from being mortal enemies with Lime et al to friends over the course of the first two series, and there is an evident struggle to choose a side when it is between their newfound friends and longtime lover. This story arc could have been much more than it was. It had potential, but was really stuck in like just another filler.

    The runner up for my favorite J to X portion was the two part series that was connected, albeit 13 episodes apart (PHASE 06: Two Otaru's? The Tightrope of Love and PHASE 19: 1/3 of Sorrow). I mentioned how everyone's maturity is explored via filler but if I had to pick one that stood out as important, it would be Bloodberry. An attraction that begins simply because Akashi closely resembles Otaru turns into much more when he begins to reciprocate the emotion. However, Bloodberry struggles with not only deciding how real the romance is, but is also torn between choosing between Otaru and Akashi. The two high points are definitely each of the Akashi/Otaru confrontations. Each one features a frustrated Akashi who truly wants the best for the one he cares for, even if it means losing her to another man. I truly believe it is Akashi who hammers home to Otaru the idea that it is impossible to devote himself to all of his marionettes without limiting the effect of that devotion.

    I also like to point out how Hanagata is given a brief hard-hitting scene and delivers it with some actual humanity attached. I refer to the shocking outburst he makes to Otaru when the latter reprimands him for stealing bread. In a fit of frustration he belts out roughly the following, "Do you even know who I'm doing this for? I'm not the one who's wanted! I don't have to be here!" Surprising enough to see him stand up for himself, but to see Hanagata tear Otaru a new one after his high-and-mighty attitude was a real eye opener. For all his comic relief, there's a believable person under there. I know it's a bit late to point at J to X as the proof, but I think it's one truly indisputable commendable moment the guy has had.

    And as much of a letdown the ending was, it did finally give the answers of who exactly the shadowy Hess was and what his motivations were. It's nice to get closure on loose ends like that.


    What about the bulk of the Xi'an Arc?

    It starts out alright, but goes downhill fast when the girls get captured. Otaru is out for only a few days and Lime and Cherry are already reintegrated into new lives.

    Otaru's search is mostly ho-hum, with a few interesting points, and it failed to reach hte feeling of utter helplessness I think the situation was crying out for. It's odd, because the elements are all there. The twisting gutwrenches are in place: For example, when Otaru makes the choice to help a boy's drowning dog knowing it blocks off his lead on Lime, and when Otaru finally does find Lime and Cherry and they have no recollection of who he is. I've admitted above to feeling impact when Akashi tells Otaru to bugger off, but the personal stories given to Lime and Cherry don't feel like they were executed as well. Now that I think about it again, it may be that Akashi is more readily identifiable in direct opposition to Otaru - it's a forcible lockout. With Lime and Cherry, what was to stop Otaru from integrating himself into their lives as a nurse or nanny? Their memories for sure would be a barrier, but it wasn't an impossibility such as when Akashi delivered his ultimatum.

    We get into the whole theme of choice, turning everything on its ear when it's suggested Otaru can't give his all without devoting himself to one single person. It's not necessarily because he refuses to treat them equally, but the fact that his humananity limits what he is capable of (refer to the train ride feeding and the extra workload Otaru takes on to secure additional tickets to Xi'an). I'm coming to accept that he had to make an eventual choice, but it stands out in so much contrast to J and JAgain where he had no problems keeping care of all three that it almost feels like an alternate universe.

    Otaru's initial choice is one I can fully comprehend. His choice is that he can't make a choice. When it comes down to it, it's not a decision he can narrow down, and rather than choose one, he chooses none. At least until they're on the brink of leaving him forever...

    Yes, I'm going to touch on the sacrifice scene of J to X again. I promise to be brief. Here Otaru announces at the last moment that he's made his choice. We're then treated to an obscured set of frames where he actually says something. What he says is undisclosed and lost in the roar of Japoness Gar's engines, but each marionette gives a noncommittal agreement.

    It was purposefully ambiguous. No matter how hard that scene is looked at, there is nothing that points to who the actual choice is. Bad enough that the ultimatum is delivered that Otaru must make a choice, but when he does, they don't come out and say it. Why the hell not? If it isn't far fetched enough to believe he could arrive at a decision, why does it need to be so inconclusive. Watch that scene three times and treat it like Otaru said a different marionette each time - it doesn't change! It's as if they're saying, "We're glad you made a choice Otaru, but we're about to go off to our certain deaths now so it doesn't really make a difference at this point anyway."

    If he came right out and made a definitive choice, and the reactions were altered to suit that choice, I think the scene would have carried more emotional impact. As it stands, it's a throwaway scene that caters to fans that like to imagine Otaru chose "their" marionette.


    What about the ending of J to X?

    There's an almost quasi-religous element to the finale. I'm referring to how the three marionettes' "essence of being" (or souls if you will) find their way into the first of Lorelei's clones. It requires a certain predisposition to not look at that scene without suspending belief.

    This goes back to my earlier thoughts on sacrifice. Say what you will about them transferring to human bodies, but it's a deus ex machina, and a cop out. It all came about with the need for a bright, happy ending.

    There were other ways to go about it. The marionettes were modeled after Lorelei and the clones were from her DNA. Otaru could have raised the kids in their memory without the pasted on requirement that their "souls" were one and the same. A deed in their memory, and his way of returning their affections without needing to resort to a quick fix.


    Any closing comments?

    When I first saw Saber Marionette J, it was a delightful surprise. I had friends that were diehard anime enthusiasts at a time where I equated the genre to the fare available on early morning children cartoon dubs. When I gave it a chance, I went in with low expectations and was blown away.

    On the other hand, I admit I viewed J Again and J to X with higher standards. With a fondness for the original series, I was looking for something that would meet or exceed it. J Again seemed rife with sexuality. J to X seemed to go to the other extreme and pare down to children's entertainment. J to X also eluded me for many years, with it becoming licensed and abandoned on the fansubbing front, only to have time pass before the official releases. Getting ahold of the Hong Kong subtitled release (thanks Mars!) allowed me to finally see it, but by then I wonder if the combination of terrible translation and my own overhype doomed J to X critically on a personal level. As there is no way to simply erase my memory of the series, I guess I'll never know if my dislike is truly the things I've explored here, or simply the skewed result of high expectation.
     
    #1
  2. SaberJ2X

    SaberJ2X Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    114
    wow... that's one deep post, I will retaliate with a comeback of WHY I still use SaberJ(2X) as my daily msn (and everywhere basically) name to this day still...
     
    #2
  3. MamiyaOtaru

    MamiyaOtaru President Bushman

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2001
    Messages:
    2,372
    Likes Received:
    36
    I should really finish J2X. I keep putting it off, because if I finish it, there is no more. Probably about time though.

    I still use this nic everywhere, partly inertia, partly nostalgia
     
    #3
  4. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    4,871
    Likes Received:
    122
    That's one way to keep the home fires burning. :)
     
    #4
  5. SaberJ2X

    SaberJ2X Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,079
    Likes Received:
    114
    I've been so out of animes lol... and last time I saw SMJ2X was when I had 17~ years, so bare with me, what I'm going to tell ya is what are trully, lasting impressions...

    back then when SMJ came out all my impression with the anime world was basically... pokemon and DBZ...

    as you can see I never saw a decent storied anime.

    Then I saw SMJ when the brother of my now GF showed it to me, and my mind was basically blown with the characters and even they being robots appeared to be quite normal humans...

    fast foward to SMJ2X and my lasting impressions were cherry taking the initiative to understand what was wrong with the baby, Kotaru I think it was, and by instinct understanding that he was hungry...

    then the mental break down of otaru all 3 marionettes where reprogrammed, and when the marionettes snapped out of it, but they were more independant since they adquired a broader view of life... but still adored otaru... and of course who didn't like episode 26
     
    #5
  6. Firefox

    Firefox Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2011
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    8
    I've been thinking about going back and rewatching the series myself- given it's now been some 6 years or so since I watched it last, and 8 years since I watched it first. I keep putting it off because I've seen so many other series since then that I've liked a lot, and I worry that I won't enjoy it as much as I did.

    Instead of taking that chance, I seem to prefer to remember it as a series I loved dearly once, and then move on. Still, I find myself looking over at those two Ultimate Edition collections of mine and thinking about popping one of them in for nostalgia's sake, every now and then.

    It's the series that started it all for me, though. Without SMJ I wouldn't be an anime fan today. And I bet I could still summarize the events of each and every episode in all three series at a moment's notice. :p
     
    #6

Share This Page