Sakabatou

alright after going through this site im going to clear this up once and for all.
there are multipule threads on what the sakabatou is. so here.
*spoilers are ahead take notice*



first we'll start with some background on Kenshin.

During the Bakamatsu Himura Kenshin was known as Hitokiri Battousai. he was working for the Ishin Shishi as one of their Hitokiri. after the fourth battle for Toba Fushimi Kenshin left the Ishin with the permission of Katsura Kogorou his direct superior. when he was about to leave he was approached by Arai Shakku who presented him the Sakabatou saying that he should try to live with that at his side. for the next ten years Kenshin wandered throughout Japan wielding the Sakabatou at his side correcting the mistakes that he made during the Bakamatsu.

so thats how Kenshin got the Sakabatou.

now tecnical information.
Sakabatou

Length: unknown, but judging by Kenshin height its probably around 26 inches long *when measuring a Nihontou (japanese sword) you measure from the tip to the hand gaurd*

Weight: again, unknown, but Yahiko does state in "Yahiko No Sakabatou" that its an extrememly heavy sword.

Koshirae (sword furniture): Buke Zukuri style blade in Uchigatana style mounts. handle is made from wood with a white same (rayskin) underlayer, followed by a black cotton Ito-Maki No Katana tsuka-maki. the menuki (ornaments in the handle) are not detailed but probably something similar to a gold dragon.

the uchigatana style mounts are your traditional katana mounts. Buke Zukuri style blade refers to a "typical" japanese sword blade. Ito-Maki No Katana Tsuka-maki refers to the way the handle is wrapped.

Forging style: hand made by swords smith Arai Shakku its probably Honsanmai style lamination meaning that it has a soft back and core with a hard tip and softer sides.

Saya: the Sakabatou has an iron scabbard instead of a wooden one. this is probably so that Kenshin can excecute the Second Level Battoujutsu technique Sou Ryuu Sen. which is a battoujutsu technique followed by the scabbard which follows the same path that the katana made.

when Kenshin fought against Soujirou in Shingetsu village, the had a face off using Battoujutsu while Kenshin shatter Soujirou's katana the Nagasone Kotetsu, he destroyed the Sakabatou shearing it in half. with Misao as his travelling companion they continued on to Kyoto where he tried to find Arai Shakku to find that he had passed away leaving his son his business. Arai Seikku however was not following in his fathers footsteps and was creating kitchen knives of incredible quality but not making swords. after a long battle at a temple Kenshin was given Shakku's last work. The Sakabatou Shinuchi.

The Sakabatou Shinuchi is a holy blade and is much stronger than the Sakabatou. when creating a blade of quality, often times the swords smith will make several copies and either hoard them or sell them off while the true blade or the Holy Blade would be dedicated to a shrine.

Sakabatou Shinuchi

Length again, unknown but i assume its the same length as the Sakabatou

Weight i imagine that its the same weight as the Sakabatou, but its possible its heavier.

Koshirae when its first given to kenshin its in Shirasaya mounts which are storage mounts and not made for fighting. but he later mounts it in the original Sakabatou mounts.

Forging Style i think that the Sakabatou Shinuchi is made better than the Sakabatou so i think it may be Gomai which is a hard out shell with a soft core with a hard core inside that. or Soshu Kitae which is a soft core a hard tip and back, medium hardness sides with a hard side on top of that.

Saya its never made clear whether the Sakabatou Shinuchi has an iron scabbard but its most likely so.

now, this is sometimes an issue with people.
The sakabatou, although makable in appearence cannot and will not have the strength of a real katana. i would never entrust my life into such a real Sakabatou. although they do pop up all over the internet i urge you not to buy one other than for prop purposes. They have props of them that range from bad to excellent. anyway...thats what i have on the Sakabatou. if you have other questions, please post them and il answer them the best tat i can

 

now tecnical information.
Sakabatou

Entirely correct. Except one thing -- I make note that in "Kenshin Kaden", that it lists Kenshin's height as 158cm which corresponds to 62 inches or 5.18 feet tall (or under 5' 1/4") Therefore his Sakabatou can be deducted to be around 26~28 inches in length (which I'd tip towards 28 inches)

Seeing how that certain sakabatou is a _unique_ sword and of a 28 inch length of high Japanese iron/steel percentage and also that Yahiko's weight is around 23kg or 50.6 pounds (using 2.2 pound to 1 kg conversion ratio), I can thus deduct that the sword would weigh a good 15 pounds - 20 pounds or (6.8 kg to 9.09 kg) given a 28 inch Japanese iron sword made to purest (for the time) percentages.

Forgot to add there that its a reverse-bladed sword (makes it much more unique).

What is more, is that in one episode, that Kenshin is told the 2nd Reverse bladed sakabatou was stored at a nearby temple/shrine. This just proves your point of the Holy Blade being dedicated to a shrine for keeping.


Just thought I'd add those points for you to ponder and consider, Hitokiri Gensai. Domo Arigatou Gozaimasu, for a fine forum laid out in good style. I am glad to contribute more points of knowledge where I can.

Sanosuke!
Return to Japan - October 2004 (Yep, Again for a month!)
Addicted to Ruruoni Kenshin & Japan!!

 

well, a true nihontou would be maybe an inch short of the ground so lets say its about 27 inches long.

the sakabatou is not that heavy. its not physically possible. it would be very awkward to handle and for someone not used to it it would be near im possible to weild. and a Nihontou weighs very little to begin with. In general a Nihontou is about 1.5-2.5 pounds and not much heavier than that unless you count Gunto which are the swords that the army officers wore during World War 2 and were made of barstock steel and usualy weighed around 7 pounds. All in all i would say the the Sakabatou and Sakabatou Shinuchi both weigh about... 3-4 pounds.

 

Hitokiri_Gensai,

I was pretty close on the sword length. About the weight, okay I was a bit off in the weight department -- but at least I'm learning a lot more about the swords as we go along. I'm glad that I was able to discover the approximate length of Kenshin's sakabatou.

Sanosuke!
Return To Japan - October 2004 (Yep, I'm going back again!)
Addicted to Rurouni Kenshin and Japan!!

 

about the length thing, just remember this, a longer sword doesnt mean a better sword. the best blade is the blade that fits its master perfectly.

anyway, about the weight, a true nihontou made of Japanese steel is very light. its blade is made in such a way that it infuses a hard edge and a soft spine into a light, thin, blade. Nihontou are considered to be among the lightest swords mankind has ever known and also are considered by many to be the strongest swords ever created by human hands.

 

very true indeed....as long as u master the blade at any length could tip the scale

 

remember, the Japanese sword's most potent advantage is that it can be drawn from the scabbard in a fluid motion that results in a circle. thus, the blade must be the exact length according to the swordsmen so that when he draws it he can create that circle motion perfectly. therefore, a longer blade wont do you any good because its overly long. even if a swordsman can weild it once his opponent is within the range of his sword. its no longer an advantage (that being able to strike in a wider range which would render a regular katana useless because its too short to make a cut when standing outside of the range of the longer blade) rather a disadvantage because it cant be used as easily and is no where near as nimble as a regular katana.

Shorter blades although they're lighter, they pose a disadvantage to longer blades because they have a limited range. but in the case of the Kodachi it was made so that you could get into your opponents range fast. A Kodachi is somewhat longer than a Wakizashi and light meaning that it can move faster than a Katana and has a bit more range than a Wakizashi.

also, some people believe that a two sword style such as Ni Tou Ryuu has an advantage because of the fact that there are two blades. this is and isnt true. for a novice a two sword style is going to be impossible to beat. because there are two swords the defending swordsmen has to have lighting speed and reflexes. but for a master swordsmen, having two swords isnt as much an advantage as much as it can be a hinderance. against a master, his speed and reflexes are going to be lightning fast and his ability to see ahead and anticipate his opponents moves is much better. so, having two swords just means your strikes wont be as strong as a two handed hit and your weild more weight which can hinder you alot.

 

Does anyone know where I can find metal training swords online?

 

depends on what you want, but this thread isnt for that, instead check out the post labelled "a good katana". Ive explained about Bokken, Shinai, Iaito, Shinken and Steel Iaito as well as care instructions.

 

I believe that the length of Kenshins Sakabatou was about 26 inches long ( given his reletive hight in the anime) but that really doesn't matter. The one thing that I have found that supports the Sakabatou not being 20-some pounds is that when Yahiko held kenshin's Sakabatou, he found it was heavy because he was use to using a light wooden training sword. Plus he was only about 10 at the time.

 

well that is relativly short, however, given most of the proportions in the manga, The Sakabatou maybe somewhat longer than it should be given his height. as for the weight, anything close to 20 pounds is absurd. i wield a finely made 28 inch blade. the weight is a perfectly balanced 2 pounds. now given that the Sakabatou was made by a master swords smith (supposedly, but given the quality of the blades produced by his son, i can imagine his blades were even better) it is going to be well balanced and made of high carbon steel. which would equal out to a resonably weighted sword. but because it has a revered edge, it probably is somewhat thicker than a normal Nihontou as to give it more strength. in total i believe the full weight of the Sakabatou and Sakabatou Shinuchi when sheathed doesnt extend past 4 pounds. 20 pounds is an absurd weight for a nihontou, actually for any sword at all. swinging that much weight is not only cumbersome, but slow and off balance.

 

they dont make the sakabato anymore do they? was there ever a real sakabato?

 

no, the sakabatou is simply a fictitious type of sword. however, they did make Tanto and even Wakizashi with the edge on the inside curvature. known as Kubikiri Tanto, they were made for beheading, because of the reverse edge, the head would stay centered on the blade for cutting. however, there has never been historical proof of a "reverse blade katana" however, several modern manufacturors (not smiths) make cheap replicas of the sakabatou.

 

I heard that it was acctualy a Korean sword. Here's the forum where I got it:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=39279

It's the 6th post down. I don't know if it's true or not, but it would be interesting if it is.

 

highly doubtful. while there are double edge tachi of ancient Origin. they still stand as Japanese weapons. Being mostly Korean myself, ive studied my own culture very much and know that while we had swords, many of them were double edged and resembled Chinese Tai-chi swords. When Japan invaded Korea in the 1500's the y brought their katana with them, the Koreans adopted the swords and styles and changed them to suit their own forms.

 

all very good points, i wuld have to say. on one hand a sakabatou is more than likely pretty weak b/c its more or less of a replica, then again how can u replicate sumthin that is never supposed to have existed in the first place. on anothere hand, if u culd find a real smith, highly un likely but..., n for the rite price u jus mite b able to get a real one that is pretty strong. idk if this is entirely tru so feel free to correct me. as a side note, im looking for hmr master, if u can tell me where i can find him, id b happy

 

it all really boils down to the fact that the Sakabatou is a fictional sword from an Anime. however, on a note, the strength of steel in most forms is extremely strong. Carbon steel is even more so. and when forged and folded like a true Nihontou, then it becomes almost unparalelled. a True Nihontou has about a 60RC *the rockwell scale for hardness* edge and a 40-45RC back. The Sakabatou, while reversed would mean that it has the softer side or the mune as the edge while the edge is now the back. This means that the blade cannot flex like it should because the hard edge is now facing up. so, technically the blade loses its flexability completely. And a unflexable blade is more prone to breaking. As i stated before, they did make Tanto and Wakizashi with reversed blades, but they were not for fighting, instead they were meant as a blade to cut heads, hence the name "Kubikiri".

 

If u want a blade with a blade on the reverse side, then get a double edged katana. I don't know how strong it is, bit it is a real sword. Or if u want one that has a blunt edge, then get an Iaito. Not sure if I got the write word: It's a metal training sword, usualy made out aluminum or something like that, but u can get it made in steel for fighting

 

there are a few Sakabatou replicas on the internet about different manufacturors. they range in quality from poor to excellent.

the double edged katana is made by Cold Steel and is fairly well made. its somewhat of a replica of a tachi once held by Taira Clan. The edge on the back runs about half the way down the blade and has a full length bo-hi.

usually practioners of Iaijutsu get what are called iaito. they are generally made from Zinc and Tin and other metals. they are NOT for contact fighting. for the most part, the price youll pay for a blade such as this should be about 200 or so. you can obtain them for less, but the blades are loose and the pin that holds the blade in the tsuka is usually very weak.

There are two steel iaito made by Chen Pao. they are very high quality and are made from high carbon forged steel. they are unedged and not in final polish. They are called the Nami and Gorin iaito. the Nami is about 300 and the Gorin is 400.

 

I thought the double edge was an experiment on the way to making the final version of the Japanese sword:2 handed, curved, single edge. Wasit used widely, or just by a few people?