Debate Same-sex marriage

This is a hot topic up here in ONT right now. I would like input.

First, the background.
As many of you may know, a law was recently passed in Ontario allowing gay and lesbian couples to wed. This has created a lot of controversy in the province, as many argue against this ruling by virtue of religion. Recently, hundreds of thousands of people worldwide celebrated "Gay Pride Week", thousands flocking to Toronto sporting wedding dresses to celebrate the provincial government's decision. Many people have problems with this law and are appealing the province's decision.
Now, the federal government is considering a similar bill, this one to legalize same-sex marriages nationwide. This would make Canada something like the third country to do so. The legal definition of "marriage" may even be revised if this legislature is passed. Of course, there are those who oppose this proposal as well, again mostly under religious grounds.

Should same-sex couples be allowed to wed like traditional couples? Is this really a matter of right and wrong, or is it a matter of civil rights, or an example of why religion and politics make dangerous companions?

 

I really don't care,but If it's one or the other,I'd say they should be allowed.Why is it harming you?If someone's gay and wants to marry a member of their sex,so what?Do it.I don't have a problem with it whatsoever.

 

i have no problem with it, if they want to get married thats fine with me. i live in Toronto which is the capital of Ontario and it isn't changing the way i live in any way. also arn't they allowed to their own rights if homosexual couples are in love and want to get married let them.

 

I think they should be allowed, but then again maybe my opinion's kinda biased, heh. Anyways, as Blue Crow said, s'not really hurting anything. And if people are worried about it tainting the name of religion, well you people need to chill out.

 

I think a marriage and a civil union are different things alltogether. A marriage is a religious event that varies by the person's religion, values, beliefs and attitudes.

A civil union is a contract between 2 people that is sanctioned by the government. If 2 people (or 4 for that matter) consent to contract to share their resources and and live together as a socially incorporated unit, if you will, then the government has no right to impede such a contract, exept in the case of minors or those who are unable to consent.

On the other hand, a church/mosque/synogogue, etc. should and does have the right to refuse to perform a marriage ceremony that violates its principles or practices.

I am a Christian and Buddhist, but why should my personal beliefs about marriage be foisted upon the free will of others????

Hehe, in case you didn't notice I'm a libertarian too.

 

I honestly don't care. As long as they're not trying to have sex with me, they can do what they want

- Ark

 

Same sex marriages should be allowed. There is no doubt about that. It's the 21st century, wake up! everyone has the right to have sex with whichever gender they choose.

Now, adopting children is different. It is a more complicated issue, since a child won't grow up in a healthy way if s/he is not exposed to both genders, at least that's what I think.

I was raised in a culture that denounces homosexuality. Then I was exposed to the more liberal views about GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered). I certainly believe that my culture and religion should conform more to the advances that GLBT have made in the field of acceptance by the general public.

 

I guess they should be able to...The only consern I have is that other people might start asking if they can marry more than one person or something. We are not really considering the consequences of this...but other wise i think it would be ok for them to get married.Oh, and that if they adopt children, it might create problem for the kids later on knowing,"wait, I don't have a mother/father..."

 

The issue isn't bigamy, adoption, or who has sex with whom. As for "civil union", two people of either gender are able to live "common-law", if I'm not mistaken.

This seems like a one-sided debate. Anyone con?

 

To point out first of all, I am still questioning this and I apologize if there is no "in the middle of the fence" in this argument. I'll give my thoughts on the matter for now.

Politics aside, it is physically impossible for two people of the same sex to have children. I just hope they don't try to sue nature ^^;; On the legal side everyone has the right to marry or associate themselves with whomever they want, therefore it would be unconstitutional for them to be denied these rights... According to the charter in my country everyone has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination.

Socially, in a macro perspective this could have some negative effects because already heterosexual couples are only having on average 1 child each... Though when there is an increase* in homosexual marriages there may be a slight, but significant drop in the amount of people being born per year compared to the rate of deaths. Also, the family is one of the biggest factors of a society because the money that a family uses on children can reach almost 10 thousand dollars a year. I really think that if adoption rates go up then this will all work out for society..

 

Well see, I'm a christain and i dont really approve completly...But I will say that most people fighting for the gay right belive that this is Civil and not religous, but all laws are based on the factor of right and wrong. Also, I read in a essay in Time Magasine(Written by Andrew Sullivan) that said that the if the government treats all citizens alike then why can't homosexuals marry? Well I dissagree that the government treats everyone the same. If that were true Children could have the same rights as adults(do you want kids out on the road driving?), all people would pay the same tax rate, and senior citizens would not get social security.Although it may not seem fair to the homosexuals, marriage is not a right. I feel that marriage should be shared between a man and a woman, but if this is what people want, then I shall not fight nor stand in their way of what makes them happy.

 

That guy!
That's definitely one of the few intelligent objections to same-sex marriage, but it is still flawed. It is true that countries like Germany, Spain and Sweden currently have a negative population growth rate, and this might be a problem for some nations in the distant future, but I don't think homosexual marriages can substantially cause less growth.

If we don't allow homosexual marriages, homosexual couples will still exist, right? Anyway, no homosexual person will decide to marry an opposite-sex person instantly. There are very few homosexual people, who, as far as I know, have married opposite-sex members and have had children. If homosexual marriage is allowed, thousands of couples will get married. Thus, not affecting the growth of the population substantially.

On the other hand, it is difficult to wake up one day and say "I'll divorce my husband/wife and become a homosexual". So in that sense as well, I don't think it really affects the population growth.

But even if it did. This would be a debate between a rights-based approach of most democratic constitution and a communitarian-based approach of the same constitutions. Simply speaking, should we put the welfare of each and everyone of our citizens above everything else, or should we sacrifice their welfare for the welfare of the whole community (and subsequentially nation)? I personally tend to choose the first option. So I would still not change my opinion.

 

A lot of the argument comes from Christians, it seems. To all you JC-lovers out there, the entire New Testament says to love everyone, without exception, and to accept and tolerate all. The only thing that says otherwise is Leviticus 18:22 ("No man shall have sexual intercourse with another man, God hates that", or Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin" in a more recent edition). The sad part is that I didn't even need a Bible to quote both of those passages.
I agree that gay couples will exist either way, and to quote Ido from Battle Angel, "you can only be what you are". If someone is gay, banning their love is only forcing them to pretend to be something they are not.

The most common non-religious argument I hear relates mostly from the fact that a lot of people consider the sight of two men kissing disgusting, never minding the idea of intercourse. How can someone ostracize another just because they think something is "icky"?

TG, of course, brings good points to the table.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against gay people. I have some very good friends that are gay, so please, don't say things about people that aren't right.

 

well neither can sterile (straight) people..

what's your point here?

 

on the matter of religion i think that the Christian since all they teach about is loving one another. so if they say that it shouldn't be allowed then they are more or less sayin " love everybody exept for those weird people."

this is just my opion.

 

the bible also says "god hates it when men sleep with other men"

christians often pick and mix the parts of the bible they follow, but that's a different argument altogether


incidentally, the bibles main argument against masturbation is that god hates it when man spills his seed on the ground. so if you aim for the bin or something, you should be ok..

 

Many religions, particularly Christianity and Islam, have these problems of contradicting texts.

 

Ok, first of all God just not hate homosexuals, He hates the sin of being homosexual. God loves everyone regardless of there sin, no matter how bad. It's just that the Bible is a rule book given to people. Don't ever think God hates anyone because he would never hate his own creation...Duh...

 

Man I laughed so hard when I read that. Don't get me wrong,I'm a Christian,but some things written in the bible are very strict.Like it says that it is a sin to lust after a person of the opposite sex,but that you are supposed to aqcuire a spouse.But every relationship starts with lust.If you see a good looking girl at school,don't you think,"Wow.She looks good.I'd like to ask her out."?My point is that God actually expects us to make minor sins,but not if we have a choice(example:stealing).So there are some things that he doesn't approve of,but realizes that we must do.At least that's what I think.