Seta Soujirou or Okita Shoushi/Soujirou

I don't know, but that's what I think thought.

 

too quote Soujirou: Manga 15 page 162: It certainly doesnt look any different but your new katana is quite fine. it even was able to crak my beloved Kiku Ichimonji Norimune.

 

Wow! Now I want to get the manga of Runouni Kenshin, Seta Soujiro is a cool character.

 

he called it his beloved blade so im left to wonder how did he come to possess it to the point where it could mean so much to him...

 

That I wouldn't know off hand, I'm just guessing that Seta Soujiro knew Okita, that's just a guess.

 

well Soujirou was only 9 at the end of the Bakumatsu and was subjected to abuse hy his foster family so i doubt he ever knew Okita Soushi...

 

yes i doubt he ever knew Okita. He was young and very hidden by his foster family.

 

For me, it was just a guess, actually, I really don't know for sure.

 

Well maybe Sou doesn't know okita but was somehow related to him, not by blood since watsuki cleared that off. Either that or it could come from Shishio, who could get his hand on practically anything. 10 years with him is a pretty long time to get attached with a katana.

 

May be, that's a good guess, I agree. What if Shishio gave the sword to Seta Soujiro? I'm wondering if that was possible, that I think that would have been possible when Seta Soujiro HAD met Shishio.

 

thats what im assuming...

 

Okay... I think that's what happened.

 

most likely although it is possibl that Soujirou was lucky and found in discarded in someones house or something like that...

 

That may be a big possiblity, I think I agree, Shishio might have given the sword to Seta Soujiro or he found it and decided to use it against Kenshin as Okita did before.

 

How Seta Soujirou came by both the Kiku Ichimonji Norimune and the Nagasone Kotetsu is a mystery that probably will never be solved. The present whereabouts of those two swords were never made clear in history, even though they were of perfect craftmanship and were wielded by famous men. (I might be wrong, but my research never shed any light on the subject, so I think I'm close.) But I have a theory.

It's entirely possible that both of the aforementioned swords were lost in the upheaval that the end of the Bakumatsu brought. Usually, when a samurai dies, his next of kin inherits the blade, or one of his friends comes in possession of it. But for the Kiku Ichimonji Norimune and the Nagasone Kotetsu, such traditional passing on didn't happen. Kondou Isami was captured and beheaded by the Tosa Ishin Shishi, who hated him. Everything he owned, including his sword, was apparently during the rough treatment he suffered in his captivity, perhaps wagered off among his captors, as is the wont of military men. Okita, on the other hand, died in relative obscurity in a hospital in Edo. Perhaps no one there knew who he really was. In any case, most of his effects were likewise lost to the flows of time.

So how did the swords turn up in Seta's hands? Well, we know that the swords were lost from public scrutiny, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were lost entirely. Black markets could have gotten a hold of the swords, and they would be well worth it, considering their history and craftmanship. Or, like someone said, they could have been gathering dust in someone's house for years. The fact is that Shishio did get a hold of them, even if we don't know exactly how. And it is Shishio who came by them; remember that the Nagasone Kotetsu was lent to Seta Soujirou by Shishio during the fight at the Shingetsu village. The Kiku Ichimonji Norimune likely came from Shishio as well.

Why those two swords and not those by other Shinsengumi captains? Well, Okita and Kondou were the only high profile members who died in relative obscurity. Hijikata Toshizou's Izuminokami Kanesada wasn't taken by Shishio because it's likely that it was taken by another Shinsengumi member, or a samurai from the Bakufu. (Hijikata Toshizou died from a gunshot wound during his stint as Army Minister of the Ezo country in the battle of Hakodate. He died later among his men, and not in the field.) Saitou, as we know, survived, and his famous, yet nameless, sword stayed with him. The other high-profile Shinsengumi captain was Nagakura Shinpachi. He was reputed to be one of the three strongest swordsmen of the Shinsengumi, along with Saitou and Okita. He survived as well, and lived to write about the Shinsengumi. (In fact, it is because of his writings that many people know about the Shinsengumi, even though the Meiji government tried to keep it under wraps. Trivia: Nagakura Shinpachi becomes a kendo instructor in Hokkaido prison, the same prison the monk Anji was sent to. ^_^) The only other Shinsengumi captain who was also well known was Harada Sanosuke (the character design for Sagara Sanosuke! ^_^), but he preffered the spear, though he was also skilled with a sword.

 

I think that Shishio had found Kondo's sword, Nagasone Kotetsu, in a house somewhere and for the first fight against Kenshin he lent Seta Soujiro the sword, this is what I was just speculating, that Seta Soujiro had found Okita's sword, Kiku Ichimonji Norimune, discarded in a house somewhere and used that in the second fight against Kenshin.

 

the records are far from clear on Harada Sanosuke...some say he died but other say he escaped the country to take becomea bandit...eitherway after the destruction of the bakufu and the shinsengumi many things became unclear... the records are clear about 5 men in particular...Okita Soushi, Saitou Hajime, Kondo Isami, and of course the imfamous Serizawa Kamo. as was said before Okita died in a hospital in Edo, Saitou lived to the age of 72, Kondo was beheaded after being captured by Ishin Shishi. but out of all 5 i think the one with the most history as well as mystery behind him was Serizawa Kamo. but that really doesnt have much to do with this particular topic so we'l save that for later. anyway considering the power Shishio held in the underground of Japan its quite possible that he got them through the black market...its also possible he got them through Yukishiro Enishi who supplied him with the Rengoku. With Enishi's power over china (he was the top of the Shanghai mafia now know as the Triads. being the top he held power over illicit arms manufactoers all over China.) he could have easily gotten just about anything from anyone.

i think that of the two swords the easiest one to find would be the Kiku Ichimonji Norimune because of the fact that Okita died in a Hospital...i honestly think that since he had the power to make diecisions in his life all the way to the end, he left his belongings as well as his swords to someone perhaps Saitou or someone who was a close friend.

as for the Nagasone Kotestsu considering Kondo was beheaded he probably lost all his things of perhaps dropped his sword on a field of battle and Shishio just picked it up or perhaps one of his men noticed it. one of the skills of a samurai is being able to recognize a fine sword at a glance. as the worked with the everyday they came to recognize a good sword easily. so perhaps the only way to know fully is to ask Watsuki-Sensei himself someday neh?

 

Wow. That's a lot of information about that, I knew that Okita died in a hospital in Edo and I also knew that Saitou had lived to to be 72. I haven't been able to do any research on Kondo Isami, I still wonder how Shishio had ended up with Kondo's sword.

 

tis a mystery i suppose...
anyway i have posted a large half finished sorta biography of Serizawa Kamo so go take alook...

 

Do you know what the link is? And just may be I can get some reseach down about the Shinsengumi, I'm still curious on how Seta Soujiro ended up with Okita's sword.