Debate Support for Japanese independence from the american occupation

In 1945 american drop 2 nuclear bomb in Japan [ Hiroshima and Nagasaki ] causing over 500.000 Japanese died and over 10 millions other Japanese suffered by radiation effect. The radiation effect victims of the american nukes have to pass their suffering into their next generation even today. Many of their babies born without proper anatomy and many others inherit fatal disease since they were born. After the day of the american nuke into Japan, the american also have placing around 100.000 of their army in Japan even to this day [ mostly in Okinawa and Yokomaha ]. Or on other words the american are occupying Japan because the presence of their army in Japan are not requested by the Japanese government especially the Japanese peoples themselves, just how the american occupy Iraq today. The existence of the american army base in Japan also consume the Japanese money with hundreds million even billion yen each year.

What worse than what happened in Iraq today is the american also enforcing several laws with the intention to chain Japan, one of those laws the american enforce to Japan since 1947 are not allowing Japan to have military force, making Japan a very-very weak country to any other countries, making the american can easily do whatever they want into Japan and the Japanese. There is JSDF or Japan Special Defense Force but their numbers are very-very small and their weaponry are limited, you can say JSDF are just posers in military uniform. Thanks to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, in April 2007 for the first time in Japan history the Japanese finally able to gain military strength, soon all the american army in Japan will kicked out to where they belong.
The other law the american enforce to Japan since 1947 are not allowing the Japanese to teach patriotism to the Japanese youth. It makes most of the Japanese [ not just the Japanese youth ] in the present have less nationalism, a country with less nationalism are very easily to get conquered by the other countries. Instead of helping to rebuild Japan after the american nuke it, the american also forcing Japan to pay a very big war debt.

The most worse thing the american army did are racial rape that is not only in the past but even in the present
- Over 29.859 Japanese girls racially raped by the american army during their occupation period of seven years in Japan.
- September 1949, a nine month old baby Japanese girl was sexually assaulted by an american soldier.
- September 1955, a 6 year old Japanese girl named Yumiko racially raped then murdered by an american officer in Japan.
- September 1995, a 12 years old Japanese school girl racially gang raped brutally by 3 american in Okinawa.
- June 2003 a 19 year old Japanese girls racially raped by an american marine in Okinawa.
- The latest american incesity in Japan was in July 2007 when a 19 years old american trying to kill 2 Japanese girls in Yokosuka because they deny him when he force them to have sex.
Those information are just a few of the many information that are based on the Japanese own media and Japanese information about the american racial rape over the Japanese girls in Japan. All the link directly come from Japan or from where the victim of those american occupation come from, so it is a reliable source. There are also many racial rape attempt that fail the american did to the Japanese girls including many other criminalities aswell such as thief, damaging Japanese property, drunk in public, and several other criminalities the american did in Japan to the Japanese, we don't think those other information are needed so we are not further giving the links that have more information of it but if you wish to know more about it you can E-Mail us, we will gladly reply you back with reliable links directly come from Japan.

There maybe those who will say about what the Japanese did in China such as saying about rape in Nanking, that is just another lie the american made to justify their invasion and incesity into Japan and the Japanese. What funny and pathetic is they were using China as an excuse to justify their invasion and incesity into Japan and the Japanese while those american are not Chinese or the Chinese never ask those american to help China during WW2 or to ask those american to occupy Japan.
I'm sure you still remember how the american lied for over almost 20 years about how Iraq having world mass destruct weapon while their true intentions are just to justify their invasion into Iraq that occurred in 2002 ago [ still occurred even today ] because even to this day there is no proof of world mass destruct weapon found in Iraq proving that the american have lied.

Another fact about what the Japanese did in Asia during WW2 :
Japan invade Indonesia in 1941 but the invasion turn as a very beneficial things for the Indonesian because before Japan invade Indonesia, Indonesia have been invaded first by Netherlands for almost 350 years. Japan invasion into Indonesia giving the Indonesian freedom from the Netherlands 350 years invasion in 1945.

Even after the american nuke Japan, the Japanese in Indonesia were not running away from Indonesia but they choose to fight together with the Indonesian to death in order to protect the Indonesian freedom. Because after Netherlands kicked out from Indonesia they still launching their 2nd invasion over Indonesia in order to take Indonesia back into their feet. Not only Netherlands but a few European countries such as England, Portuguese also invade Indonesia. The TNI [ Tentara Nasional Indonesia ] or Indonesian National Army that still exist even today were also formed by the Japanese that were born from PETA [ Pembela Tanah Air ]. Japanese are hero for Indonesian based on Indonesian own history book.

 

i just have one thing to say, look up Pearl Harbor.

 

Well, I'm not so sure, but I think there are a lot of American military instillation all around the world and Japan is not the only one of them. My country was once occupied by American forces, although they were forced out during the turn of the millennium they still occupy the country in some way, they call it joint military exercises . I think it's their way of saying that "we're keeping an eye on you!"

 

Nah I agree with you on this one they should leave. But what can you do?

 

I agree with Baka to an extent.

A life is not worth a life, much less a 2000:70000 ratio....

You don't go killing a crook's family because they shot your kid do you?

-Seishin

 

Wrong.

Look at the alternative: A full scale mass invasion of Japan's homeland where every inch of the country would have to be covered and taken and where every man, woman and child would have been fighting tooth and nail to defend. Urban combat taken to a whole new level, where EVERY city would have to be taken, inch by inch, resulting in a death toll innumerably higher than what we saw with Nagasaki and Hiroshima. This time with thousands of American deaths added to the toll. Which horror would you rather have seen? Go out and hug your granddad today. If we hadn't used our bombs he might not be here, and, frankly, possibly not you. This goes for both Americans and Japanese.

Japan is our staging point for armed forces in Asia today. One of my buddies from home went to live there for a few years and the mentality over there is "we'd rather have the US here than the Chinese". They're afraid of N.Korea and what they can do since they've opened up hostilities with that entire seaboard- Namely Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. Our presence there is a deterrence.

Also that port and it's associated shipyard is a huge economical boon to its region. While owned by the US it's operated and run almost entirely by Japanese workers, providing thousands of jobs. If we pulled out and shut down thousands of families would be out of work, marking a sharp increase in unemployment. That sounds like it'd be wonderful for the Japanese people and their economy.

Believe me, if the Japanese really didn't want us there so badly we'd be hearing about it all the time over here. We've got more than enough anti-war/anti-military sentiment to spark a few news articles.

If you read the original post it's calling for our withdrawal because of a few dumb marines who can't keep it in their pants. That might prove to be a weakly valid point for the complete withdrawl of US forces there if only...

Criminal Justice Statistics 2000 - Japan
Estimated rate (per 1,000 persons age 12 and other) of personal victimization

All crimes of violence 56.1
Rape/Sexual Assault 2.2
Robbery 6.5
Assault 47.3

They got the same problems we have over here. And it's not us doing it.

Besides he flat out calls the Rape of Nanking a bunch of BS promulgated by US government to authorize our invasion of the Japanese homeland.

Blind fundamentalism is fun. Please be a good chap and travel to China to explain your point of view to the elderly survivors still living in Nanking today.

~W

 

And you shouldn't. The Atomic bomb is an unspeakable device, and should never be put to use again.

After reading your article I must point out a few facts that I picked up-

1. The US received a flurry of contradictory intelligence regarding Japan's intentions of surrender. They might as well have not received any information at all, it would have said the same thing.

2. Truman is faulted for not listening to the Japan US ambassador, and rightly so, however as president he's also bound to the will of the people, which was the popular opinion. The contradictory intelligence he was receiving further lent to his eventual conclusion that bombing was the better of two evils.

3. Japan's please to Russia to end the conflict only appeared to be an effort to halt what would have been an unstoppable force from obliterating their country. Despite the approach of US forces several key military leaders in Japan believed they could still push us back and retake the Pacific. With the Russians included into the mix, their eventual loss would have been inevitable- Japan could not afford a war on two fronts. Those communications appeared to be a plea to end war with Russia, not the US.

4. Japan's military leadership was adamantly against surrendering. The emperor really didn't muddle himself with lowly politics, and left all those major decisions up to his cabinet. Even after the bombings of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki they still refused to surrender (they needed a unanimous vote to do so), and it was only after the intercession of the Emperor that they finally conceded. This is despite the fact that they were petitioning letters to Russia and all the other contradictory data and intelligence the US was receiving.

Yes Japan may have had power elements who desired a swift end to the war, but based upon their social structure, the role the emperor played in his government, and the blind faith their leadership had, they appeared more split on the decision than anything. Remember that according to the article the US also wanted to make a powerful political statement with our new bombs. Frankly, since no other bombs have been used to end human life to date, I think that statement was more than necessary.

It's kind of like a train wreck. You can hear about it all you want, but until you actually see the devastation you don't fully realize the complete scope of the tragedy, and the impact that it made on all those involved. The entire world learned how horrifying a nuclear blast was, and it's scared us witless ever since then.

Rightly so.

~W

 

I think some of are forgetting that there was a race to build the A bomb. Guess who won? If they didn't some other country would have used it.

Should the american army pulled out from Japan?

Is there still a threat?
Do they still need help from what we did?

 

True. Six more months and there would have been V-2's strapped with Nuclear warheads sailing into British Airspace. We could all be eating Sour kraut and wearing lederhosen right now.

I point you to my second and third paragraph in my first post, for my completely opinionated opinion.

Hah, I guess not in this case.

I'm curious to see what BMS has to say. This is a good debate, even if it wasn't the intention of the original poster.

~W

 

Hrm... i try to stay out of these debates, but as a Japanese/Korean-American who enlisting in the Marines and hoping to get stationed in Japan. (^^x;;;; )

First off, considering that this debate has devolved into the typical, who was right who was wrong argument, my only opinion is that BOTH sides were wrong, but whats done is done and you CANT change the past, you can only make up for it.

War is an atrocity, not just the people who do it, or the soldiers to who fight for it, all war is.

not only does it cost billions and our soldiers die, but everyones soldiers die, right or wrong, people will die, countries will be bombed, people will be outraged, its war, its how it goes, and no matter how you try to settle the score, it doesnt make you any more right or wrong than the country who started it.

Should we pull out? probably. Will we? nope. Can you change it? not even a bit.

*EDIT* WARNING FOR THOSE WHO ARE UBER PATRIOTIC






i FULLY believe that the US takes its power to its head and will send our soldiers to where ever its felt that its "impact" is needed. which is a giant load of HORSE--*end sentence*. Our country was founded on the belief of religious freedom, and human rights. FOR US, but not for other countries. We invade and force our politics on them because WE believe that WE are right. Im sorry but these countries have been around for THOUSANDS of years, and who are we to enter them and force our own beliefs upon these people? As someone who will soon be a Marine, i like to believe that my training is to a country, to protect the citizens from death and bloodshed, but i also believe that that shouldnt extend to a country halfway around the world that we have NO business being in, in the first place.

Yes 9/11 happened, and it was a terrible thing, but was it worth creating a war thats dragging our economy into the dirt? No, i dont think so, 9/11 effected everyone, emotionally and if we're honest, fiscally, but the issue here is, When they attacked on 9/11 it was to weaken the countries, Government, Economy, and Military Power. They hit our Economy, and we went along with it, if you really think about it, arent we doing exactly what they wanted to achieve? Our economy is in the garbage, there were talks for the bailout, which only would have served to make things worse, our soldiers are dying for a war that we shouldnt be part of any longer, we are stuck in a country that isnt our own, and much less be OUR responibility.

Doesnt it really feel like we only helped them achieve their ends? We rushed into something headlong, and it sure as hell doesnt feel like we've really figured anything out.


*EDIT* END. BRING ON THE FLAME WAR!

 

The first one was dropped and the Japanese were still unwilling to surrender. Russia joined the war against Japan and they were still unwilling to surrender. The second bomb appeared to be what it took to force their hand. Speculation regarding Truman seeing peace is the same speculation we're brewing up here over this debate.

Very interesting arguments on all sides, but I've got to take a step back with the regard to the bombings being terrorism. During war terrorism is a very fluid term.

-Violence
-Psychological impact and fear
-Perpetrated for a political goal
-Deliberate targeting of non-combatants

-Violence: well it is war. Violence is the very nature of the beast. They knew we were going to be dropping the munitions upon them, they just weren't prepared for what we had in store.
-Psychological impact and fear: This is 100% true. That was the purpose behind the bombings. We wanted them to call off the war. I think we were tired of having our boys dying. Okinawa showed that they were still game for a long and drawn out campaign. We simply were through and wanted to end the war in a quickest manner possible. More on this below.
-Perpetuated for a Political goal: Also true. It ties back up to the above statement.
-Deliberate targeting of Non-Combatants: Both sides were guilty of this throughout the war. Unfortunately it was the nature of combat back then. If you could demoralize the populace you could turn the tide of the war and end it sooner than later. If we hadn't been bombing them, even with conventional munitions, they would have built up, and prepared for the lengthly campaign that would have only been a matter of time.

I'm not sure I believe the thought that they were ready to toss in the towel. If it took two weapons never before used on the face of the earth and a second party to join in the war, I don't think they were 'that' ready to call it. Besides they were still tied up at the very end. Half wanted to continue and half wanted to bail.

Based upon this view I still believe that dropping the two bombs were the best thing we could have done. The US Government could only speculate as to the real intentions of the Japanese (with regards to their surrender), and were preparing for the mainland invasion. This would have resulted in countless, needless deaths- Both American and Japanese. By releasing the bombs we took the safest route we could have hoped to take, considering what we knew about the Japanese and the cost of doing a full invasion.

As backwards as it sounds we saved American and Japanese lives by dropping them. We took out two cities, but that was it. The rest of the country was left unscathed and ready to rebuild. Simply imagine the death toll if we'd landed. If they didn't surrender, if we didn't drop. Those were what had to be weighed before the decision was made. The risks involved were steep. It was psychologically devastating. I'm sure there was a great deal of speculation going on back then, but the decision made was to save American lives. Inadvertently it also saved Japanese lives.

It's anyone's guess as to what the Japanese were going to do. That's the point of history, and this debate: To put the pieces together and think about how we can learn from it.

~W