Swordsmenship Today

wut do u think about swordsmenship today. do u think its a growing interest today or not n y.

 

Swordsmenship, whether it be Nihon Kenjutsu or Saber Fencing remains as a somewhat "lost" art. i dont know much about fencing and saber fencing but Kenjutsu i can tell you about.

Japan as a place where the sword is revered as a weapon, the soul of the country, and even a religious symbol. No where on earth will you find more dedication to the principles and schooling of the Japanese Sword. The sword first came to Japan in the early second century B.C., but the first sword of purely Japanese design came in about 694 A.D. from there the Japanese Sword changed shape and design many times in the coming years. by the 13th century, the Dutch had brought guns to Japan, however, the rulers of the time considered them to be inferior weapons, not worthy of being used by the elite class of warrior known as the samurai.

The First reference to use of bokken in matches and training dates back to about 400 A.D. Many schools of Kenjutsu came into being around the 15 centuries. Unlike schools of Europe and other countries, these schools of swordsmenship taught many students and had extensive lineage, many of them surviving even today. tens of hundreds of school once existed but now that list remains very short of maybe 40.

Kenjutsu remained the way of the warrior for many years until the coming of the Bakumatsu when guns used by the Ishin Shishi gunned down many swordsmen to win and restore the Emperor to power. During this time the Haitorei edict came into effect which effectivly ended the rule of the Samurai. this edict prevented the samurai from wearing their swords and wearing their hair Chonmage or in a topknot. from here Kenjutsu began do decline. however, in the need to provide the police with a way to fight and train, Kenjutsu, now in a more sportive form known as Kendo, became popular. however this form was not true Kenjutsu and it lost much of its true nature but it would survive well into the century and probably will for many years to come. there are a small (very small) number of Kenjutsu dojos in Japan, that still teach Kenjutsu as it was taught hundreds of years ago, but they are hard to find and even harder to gain acceptence to.


I believe Kenjutsu and Fencing have stayed mainly the same since their invention. I believe while they are not hugely popular they will always be a sport to take up. Fencing may decline however because of its lack of a long lineage or a famous begining as Kenjutsu did. Kenjutsu is closely tied with the Japanese Cultrue and i believe it will never cease to exist.

 

In a few simple words....swordsmanship is not what it used to be. Now its just a rare sight to see a swordsman walking around.....*sigh*


-KaiyonTormentor

 

well, the rules and laws of this world quite easily provent such things from happening any longer. and Kenjutsu and Fencing also have no real use in this modern world. your very unlikely to whip out a katana or a bokken when being mugged in an alleyway.

 

Unfortuatly, swordsmanship is a lost art these days. Few people know the ture essence of the sword besides the disapointing " hit somone with a stick". Of this I am ashamed. Back in the days of the japaneese revolution, carying a sword was very common, up untill the true inforcment of laws in Japan. Truely, swordsmanship hasn't really spiked since it's deline in Japan. But you must take all of these words with a grain of salt. This is because the one who is speeking them is very impartial, swordsmanship is my life. I would like nothing better then to leave the present world in which I have no purpose to be back when one could be free, and my blood could be content, but that will most likely not happen. It does not matter how many facts or formalities their are to say, swordsmanship is (here) very missed and it is very unfortunate that it is not more popular then it is. Mainly, i belive, is because it is obsoleet. With guns who needs swords? Well i do. It is also because swordsmanship takes a lot of effort, one must devote their soul to the sword and live by it, till death. Almost know one lives by this rule anymore, or even relizes that Kenjutsu is not about fancy moves or waza, but about killing effectively, or in the sense of Hiten mitsurugi ryu, Protecting from opression. In my personal oppion as long as there is 1 person with the spirit of the sword left in their veins, swordsmanship will still be alive. but barly.

 

i do not think one could have said it better myself, it is tru it is the time of guns n other such weapons n that swords have no other purpose but to be collectors items or jus to b merely looked at, but i for one believe that swords may once again shape the way for change in this world that is filled w/ violence n hate. any one who can devote their lives n their soles to the sword is a much better person than one who wuld pick up a weapon to merely kill sum1. i have started to devote my life to the sword n one day i hope i cna use it to save sum1. that is my opinion on this subject. i give props to u H,M,R master, Hitkori_Gensai n Kaiyon Tormentor, u speak of what is tru, i jus hope there r more ppl out there who r willing to speak out as well on this subject.

 

Guns originally came to Japan in the 1300's from the Dutch. but even when brought over, for centuries they were considered inferior weapons to the sword. a gun being second rate to an edged weapon, that is something that is completely unheard of now a days.

well in this country, any form of swordsmenship is fairly unheard of. while there are many dojos dedicated to Kendo, there is still a simple lack of enhtusiasim for it. why? there are many reasons but the most important being, here it has no long lineage or through tradition, its simply a sport brought from a fairly obscure country in the Eastern world. while we, practioners of it have a very immense knowledge of it and a love and passion for it, it remains irrevocably, non-existent to the rest of those who live here.

In Japan, however, it is the national sport, hailing from a long lineage of powerful swordsmen who shaped and formed the soul of Japan. A thousand years old, tied into its religion, politics, culture and soul, the Nihontou and the art of Kenjutsu, remains still a strong force in Japan. This may be partially due to the fact that guns arent available to anyone but the military in Japan. even the police force uses staffs and nightsticks.

Many Samurai hated guns because of the fact that an untrained pheasent could pick up a gun and kill a superbly trained swordsmen in whom many years were spent teaching them to kill with the utmost efficiency with a sword. many Shogun disallowed the use of guns during their reign.

However, one genius tactician from the ranks of the Ashigaru rose from obscurity to complete rule over Japan with the use of guns and swords. his name was Oda Nobunaga. Born to the pheasent class, he was neither trained in the art of swordsmenship, nor trained to lead a country, yet he rose through the ranks and took control over Japan. He was ruthless in his ways and he despised Esoteric Buddism even going as far as wiping out Mt. Hiei, the spiritual center of Buddism in Japan. Renowned for his love of the Western culture, he was a catholic and because of this, is the first Japanese ruler to show up in Western Hisotry. He quickly adapted guns into his arsenal, and improved upon using them tactically. Guns had been in Japan since the 1300's, however, they were primitive at best and couldnt be fired in the rain or snow and had a serious tendency to explode when fired. Nobunaga built huge stone fortresses in which his warriors could fire their muskets from safety and have cover so they could be used in the rain. He also iron-plated his battleships making them almost indestructable. Nobunaga's iron fleet existed far before any of the other iron ships of the world. With this fleet and his army of gunners her ruthlessly took over Japan. but his reign came to a quick stop when Akechi Mitsuhide, his own general, assassinated him at Honno-ji. And so his reign over Japan with an iron fist ended, but not before he had formally introduced gunnery to Japan.

 

yes but if the guns were so primitive, y were they used ne way, u culd probably kill more ppl w/ a sword in the time it takes to reload the gun after a shot, n if the samurai despised them then y was he using them n how come they didnt attack him or sumthing like that. this may b a lil of subject but i think its a good idea to go back a lil before continuing forward. i also think its amazing there's more kids in the us practiceing it than we thought, finding is the only hard part.

 

it all boils down to range. you can kill 3 maybe 4 people with a single stroke of a sword, but you have to be within the reach of your sword. which limits you to several feet at most. however, even with a primitive gun, you could kill up to 150 yards. compared to a sword, that range is phenominal.

Nobunaga used them because he saw that they had use and he wasnt a samurai to begin with. he was born to a low class family that wasnt of samurai origin. he saw guns as not an inferior weapon, but a tool that would lead to his taking over the country.

why attack someone whom has power enough to kill from that distance? Besides which, just because he favored guns doesnt mean he didnt carry a sword.

 

for a primitive gun that is a nice range but dusnt it take a lil while for u to reload the thing, n in that time if u do happen to dodge the shot culdnt u attack the shooter, but still for the range of the sword, 3 0r 4 ppl isnt all that bad.

 

understand this, although primitive, a trained musketeer could shoot and reload his musket in under 15 seconds. now, i dont know about you but that is fast. and regardless of having to reload them, Nobunaga had massive fortresses that he built specficly for using guns in.

And no killing 3 or 4 people even with its limited range is incredible. however, it is a melee weapon and farther than a few feet it becomes a hinderance rather than an advantage. however, the Japanese sword is renowned for its amazing capabilites.

 

And to bring our attention back to the original topic…

To be honest, I don’t know that much about swordsmanship in and of itself. However, I do know about its popularity. Yes, for a while its popularity declined in all areas, but I think it’s slowly coming back. Of course, Oregon has just boomed with new fencing classes after one of our own, Mariel Zagunis, one the gold in the Olympics in fencing. heh So, I may be in a biased area to give a global opinion. *nod*

 

Well, Oregon is relatively small compared to the world, but its good that its made a boom. however watered down it is, it is fundamentally, swordsmenship. i believe that no matter how high tech our weapons get, we should never forget what weapons existed before them.


I, unfortunetly, am highly biased against fencing *dont shoot me!!!*. after 10 years of studying Iai-jutsu and Kenjutsu, ive sparred with fencers and have come to the unfair conclusion that it is weak, but perhaps its something that has lost all purpose as anything other than a sport. Even as watered down as Kendo is in Japan, once the student has reached a certain level he is required to preform with a live sword to pass his exams, and that i believe holds onto the spirit of what Kendo originally was. These two arts i suppose are highly different in there aspects, outlooks, and goals. but i believe that they both should be remembered that they orignially began as simply, a way to kill. eitherway, fencing, Kenjutsu, Kendo, Iai-jutsu, Iaido, all will live on in this age as a simple reminder of an age past.

 

yes 3 or 4 people is incredible, thats wut i meant, secondly, if ur jus starting out swordsmenship n there's rly no place to get lessons, i wuld have to say fencing mite give u a good idea of the basics at least, when it comes to attacking n blocking, though there r sum good books out there hitkori_gensai n myself do highly recommend, as for reading ur oppanents moves, that comes w/ time n much practice sparing. but the more u do it the easier it will b ng et when u face sum1 else.

 

unfortunetly, no. Fencing is extrememly different. the basics arent even close to being the same. Fencing relies heavily on the tip of the sword, all attacks being centered around stabs, whereas with Kenjutsu the body of the blade is most important. Fencing although teaches defense, most swordsmen of the times that used said fencing would have also had a shield making defense with the sword somewhat unuseable. Japan is one of the very few countries in the world that never used shields. The basic stances strokes used in Kenjutsu are a vertical downward cut, a horizontal cut at about waist height, a diagonal cut to the right shoulder, a diagonal cut to the left shoulder, a diagonal cut upwards to the left hip, a diagonal cut upwards to the right hip, and a stab to the chest. these basic techniques hit all the vital points on the body. Fencing, teaches stabbing, intended for hitting the shoulders, head, and chest, which is also directed for hitting the vital points, but its much less practical than Kenjutsu. because of these major difference, Fencing is not a good start to one who wishes to practice Kenjutsu or Kendo. another aspect of the Japanese sword that cannot even begin to be understood with a Euopean sword is the art of Iai-jutsu, the rapid deployment of the katana with the intentions of killing the first blow. because of its curve, the Japanese sword can be drawn from its scabbard with extreme speed. This fact facilitates the Japanese point of practicality. The art of Iai-jutsu is extremely practical from all view points. To kill with extreme speed and accuracy without excessive movements or overworked tactics, this is the art of Iai-jutsu. I believe because of this practicality, it will be an art never lost to the world.

 

ok, i was wrong, ill openly admit that, i only have knowledge on it n not very much hands on expereience, i myself am jus starting out n i for one am glad i have, i feel like myself when i practice, i feel like im back in japan during the 1600's or so, its like the sword has been the part of me i've been missing n now i feel whole, but to get back to the topic, swordsmenship is many things, though it more or less means the art of killing it many more things

 

I agree that swordsmanship is the art of killing, but its also the art of protecting(eg: samurai killing the assasin to protect his lord) or the art of self defence.

 

theres a saying which embodies the truest ideals of Kenjutsu and is something that isnt really said anymore. that phrase is "Satsujinken Katsujinken" which translates to "The sword that takes life is the sword that protects life.

 

if u think about it, wut he jus sed makes all the since, i mean, think about it, sumtimes to protect the the lifes of the ones u love u have to take the life of ur enemy, so the sword protects as well as takes life, which may be y the samurai looked at it as much more than jus a weapon

 

Kendo and modern Fencing embody a whole different "personality" than old Kenjutsu. Kendo and Fencing are sports and nothing more. they are competitions that go as far as the olympics, but they are nothing compared to they're original forms. Ultamitly, Kenjutsu and Swordplay from Europe, are killing arts, but as is realized with the phrase, Satsujiken Katsujinken, they ultamitly, were forms of upholding the law, protecting the weak. Perhaps we will never regain that code of Chivalry and Bushido.