The Cosmo synthesizer

Discussion in 'Tomita' started by mikael at m..., Aug 10, 2002.

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  1. Does anyone have information about the Casio Cosmo synthesizer, which Tomita used in the middle eightees and talked about in Keyboard magazine's Japan issue (around 1985)? On Dawn Chorus, Tomita used waveforms from exploding stars and particals entering the earth's atmosphere. Were they entered into the Fairlight or the Cosmo machine? Anyone knows how?

    Thanks
    Mikael Hillborg
    http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins
    http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/spacesynth <-- The Space Synthesizer
     
    #1
  2. Mikael Hillborg wrote:
    >
    > Does anyone have information about the Casio Cosmo synthesizer, which Tomita used in the middle eightees and talked about in Keyboard magazine's Japan issue (around 1985)? On Dawn Chorus, Tomita used waveforms from exploding stars and particals entering the earth's atmosphere. Were they entered into the Fairlight or the Cosmo machine? Anyone knows how?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Mikael Hillborg
    > http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins
    > http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/spacesynth <-- The Space Synthesizer


    The Cosmo was an advanced prototype that eventually saw what was learned
    from it appear in a commercial as the Casio FZ1. So essentially it was a
    test bed for a 16 bit sampler and of course the marketplace changed
    between when the product started off and the state of the market for
    samplers when the FZ-1 was released.

    I have a Japanese article on just that album I had translated. It seems
    he used the Fairlight. The article has fairlight plots. Good question
    how they input it. Should be easy enough to scale raw data to a sample
    file. For what I understand he did the exact sampler obviously isn't
    that important once its understood its merely a digital waveshape

    As I understand RCA was by this time less supportive of his efforts and
    didn't allow the time to put in on that album to elevate the concept to
    more than a novel idea. Whats there is pretty much some outerspace data
    being used as cyclic sampler waveforms then being filtered and effected
    that normal way. As one can see after that album Tomita moved on to the
    do the Sound Cloud shows.

    Actually some years ago I talked to Dr. Fiorella Terenzi
    http://www.fiorella.com/galaxies.html

    She was unaware of Tomita's work many years earlier. So much for RCA's
    publicity or lack of it. I don't know if she should be faulted though. I
    don't recall her making any "I'm the first" claims regarding her album
    and it was in the early days of the internet so I'm sure that with
    Tomita's album being out of print for years outside Japan and it being
    under publicized upon release anyway I couldn't really fault her for
    being unaware. I pointed out while talking to her in person that Tomita
    was pretty much cycling waveshapes from astronomical data in place of
    say a saw wave or sampled violin. I think after asking her if she
    wanted a dub I mailed a cassette but didn't hear back.

    Her album is neat in the conceptual sense but not so much in the
    listening sense, like I'd never want to listen to it if I didn't know it
    was some galactic sound. I caught her do a live thing where she added
    her voice and some sampled beats to bursts of cosmic noise, the album
    though is just the cosmic noise.


    nicholas kent

    http://artskool.biz/jem
     
    #2
  3. Yeah, I've always wondered if the introductory sound on the album "Dawn Chorus" really is a long (several seconds) sample of what scientists and Isao Tomita refer to as dawn chorus; materia entering the earth's atmosphere creating a haunting almost bird-like noise. Or maybe it's just a short cycle (e.g. 1 ms) which originates from some raw scientific data? And then Tomita plays the short cycle on his Fairlight and maybe processes it through the Moog Modular (sounds like he might have used a phaser and some filtering there)?

    I think the Fairlight CMI IIx had an RS232 port so that might have been a way to get the data into the machine, but that would probably have required some programming... Maybe he just got hardcopies/graphs of the original waveforms and then tried to recreate them manually using the light pen? Well, I guess noone except Tomita knows exactly...

    /Mikael Hillborg
    http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins
    http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/spacesynth <-- The Space Synthesizer

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: ndk [mailto:ndkent at o...]
    > Sent: den 10 augusti 2002 22:48
    > To: isaotomita at yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [isaotomita] The Cosmo synthesizer
    >
    >
    > Mikael Hillborg wrote:
    > >
    > > Does anyone have information about the Casio Cosmo synthesizer,
    > which Tomita used in the middle eightees and talked about in
    > Keyboard magazine's Japan issue (around 1985)? On Dawn Chorus,
    > Tomita used waveforms from exploding stars and particals entering
    > the earth's atmosphere. Were they entered into the Fairlight or
    > the Cosmo machine? Anyone knows how?
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > > Mikael Hillborg
    > > http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins
    > > http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/spacesynth <-- The Space Synthesizer
    >
    >
    > The Cosmo was an advanced prototype that eventually saw what was learned
    > from it appear in a commercial as the Casio FZ1. So essentially it was a
    > test bed for a 16 bit sampler and of course the marketplace changed
    > between when the product started off and the state of the market for
    > samplers when the FZ-1 was released.
    >
    > I have a Japanese article on just that album I had translated. It seems
    > he used the Fairlight. The article has fairlight plots. Good question
    > how they input it. Should be easy enough to scale raw data to a sample
    > file. For what I understand he did the exact sampler obviously isn't
    > that important once its understood its merely a digital waveshape
    >
    > As I understand RCA was by this time less supportive of his efforts and
    > didn't allow the time to put in on that album to elevate the concept to
    > more than a novel idea. Whats there is pretty much some outerspace data
    > being used as cyclic sampler waveforms then being filtered and effected
    > that normal way. As one can see after that album Tomita moved on to the
    > do the Sound Cloud shows.
    >
    > Actually some years ago I talked to Dr. Fiorella Terenzi
    > http://www.fiorella.com/galaxies.html
    >
    > She was unaware of Tomita's work many years earlier. So much for RCA's
    > publicity or lack of it. I don't know if she should be faulted though. I
    > don't recall her making any "I'm the first" claims regarding her album
    > and it was in the early days of the internet so I'm sure that with
    > Tomita's album being out of print for years outside Japan and it being
    > under publicized upon release anyway I couldn't really fault her for
    > being unaware. I pointed out while talking to her in person that Tomita
    > was pretty much cycling waveshapes from astronomical data in place of
    > say a saw wave or sampled violin. I think after asking her if she
    > wanted a dub I mailed a cassette but didn't hear back.
    >
    > Her album is neat in the conceptual sense but not so much in the
    > listening sense, like I'd never want to listen to it if I didn't know it
    > was some galactic sound. I caught her do a live thing where she added
    > her voice and some sampled beats to bursts of cosmic noise, the album
    > though is just the cosmic noise.
    >
    >
    > nicholas kent
    >
    > http://artskool.biz/jem
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > isaotomita-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
     
    #3
  4. In message <531018.1029011928115.JavaMail.root at s...>, Mikael
    Hillborg <mikael at m...> writes
    >Yeah, I've always wondered if the introductory sound on the album "Dawn
    >Chorus" really is a long (several seconds) sample of what scientists
    >and Isao Tomita refer to as dawn chorus; materia entering the earth's
    >atmosphere creating a haunting almost bird-like noise. Or maybe it's
    >just a short cycle (e.g. 1 ms) which originates from some raw
    >scientific data? And then Tomita plays the short cycle on his Fairlight
    >and maybe processes it through the Moog Modular (sounds like he might
    >have used a phaser and some filtering there)?

    isaotomita.net quotes the sleeve notes :

    http://www.isaotomita.net/tomita/recordings/dawn.html

    "Astronomers call it "DAWN CHORUS". But it lasts only for a brief
    moment, and fades out, as the sun rises. As the sound recorded at the
    Radio Observatory in Hiraiso, Ibaragi Pref., was excellent and audible
    in the original form, it was used at the beginning of this album without
    any modifications"

    --
    Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.
     
    #4
  5. --- In isaotomita at y..., Brendan Heading <brendanheading at c...> wrote:
    > In message <531018.1029011928115.JavaMail.root at s...>, Mikael
    > Hillborg <mikael at m...> writes
    > >Yeah, I've always wondered if the introductory sound on the album "Dawn =

    > >Chorus" really is a long (several seconds) sample of what scientists
    > >and Isao Tomita refer to as dawn chorus; materia entering the earth's
    > >atmosphere creating a haunting almost bird-like noise. Or maybe it's
    > >just a short cycle (e.g. 1 ms) which originates from some raw
    > >scientific data? And then Tomita plays the short cycle on his Fairlight =

    > >and maybe processes it through the Moog Modular (sounds like he might
    > >have used a phaser and some filtering there)?
    >
    > isaotomita.net quotes the sleeve notes :
    >
    > http://www.isaotomita.net/tomita/recordings/dawn.html
    >
    > "Astronomers call it "DAWN CHORUS". But it lasts only for a brief
    > moment, and fades out, as the sun rises. As the sound recorded at the
    > Radio Observatory in Hiraiso, Ibaragi Pref., was excellent and audible
    > in the original form, it was used at the beginning of this album without =

    > any modifications"
    >
    > --
    > Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
    > Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.


    Methinks there's perhaps a little artistic licence in the RCA records marke=
    ting
    department in that quote, Brendan! :)

    Ben
     
    #5
  6. In message <aj42dg+h0tc at eGroups.com>, bawardus <baward at b...>
    writes
    >Methinks there's perhaps a little artistic licence in the RCA records marke=

    >ting
    >department in that quote, Brendan! :)

    Are you casting aspersions about the good men and women of RCA ? Quite
    disgraceful. We respected our betters in my day..

    --
    Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.
     
    #6
  7. Hi,

    > I think the Fairlight CMI IIx had an RS232 port so that might have been
    > a way to get the data into the machine, but that would probably have
    > required some programming... Maybe he just got hardcopies/graphs of the
    > original waveforms and then tried to recreate them manually using the
    > light pen? Well, I guess noone except Tomita knows exactly...

    The Casio Cosmo Synthesizer has a digitizer.
    He got hardcopies of graphs. Then he inputted them into Cosmo Synthesizer
    manually using the digitizer. Cosmo Synthesizer used the waveform as one
    cycle of tone.

    He used the Cosmo Synthesizer instead of VCO module of Moog system.
    Therefor the waveform was processed by VCF, VCA, etc.

    The DAWN CHORUS sound was used without any modifications.

    ---------------------------
    Ken Terao <jarod at d...>
     
    #7
  8. Ken Terao wrote:
    >
    > The Casio Cosmo Synthesizer has a digitizer.

    Hmmm, is this a "scanner"?
    Someone said the Cosmo was more or less a prototype or testbed of the FZ-1. It certainly didn't have a scanner. At least not the one my friend used to own. I'm confused :)

    > He got hardcopies of graphs. Then he inputted them into Cosmo Synthesizer
    > manually using the digitizer.

    Manually ... using the digitizer. Confuses me even more here :) Please explain, someone, how was this done.

    Regards
    Mikael Hillborg
    http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/spacesynth <-- The Space Synthesizer
    http://www.mhc.se/software/plugins/
     
    #8
  9. Hi,

    Mikael Hillborg wrote:
    >
    > Ken Terao wrote:
    > >
    > > The Casio Cosmo Synthesizer has a digitizer.
    >
    > Hmmm, is this a "scanner"?

    No, it is not.
    Don't you know the "digitizer" which is input device for CAD ?

    I give the example of a digitizer.
    http://www.glossar.de/glossar/1frame.htm?http://www.glossar.de/glossar/z_digitizer.htm


    > Someone said the Cosmo was more or less a prototype or testbed of the FZ-1.
    > It certainly didn't have a scanner. At least not the one my friend used to own. I'm confused :)

    The Cosmo Synthesizer was a prototype system made for TOMITA.
    The technology of Cosmo was applied to a synthesizer which is called ZZ-1
    and which was produced in small lots very much.

    Although the technology of ZZ-1 is applied to FZ-1, a "digitizer" is not
    connectable with FZ-1. In FZ-1, waveform writing can be performed using
    a cursor key. I think that it is for a cost cut because ZZ-1 was very
    expensive.


    > > He got hardcopies of graphs. Then he inputted them into Cosmo Synthesizer
    > > manually using the digitizer.
    >
    > Manually ... using the digitizer. Confuses me even more here :) Please explain, someone, how was this done.

    Please investigate the usage of a "digitizer." Then, you could understand.

    Thanks,
    ---------------------------
    Ken Terao <jarod at din.or.jp>
     
    #9
  10. In message <3D68E3F3.C0ADB84B at din.or.jp>, Ken Terao <jarod at din.or.jp>
    writes

    >> Hmmm, is this a "scanner"?
    >
    >No, it is not.
    >Don't you know the "digitizer" which is input device for CAD ?

    In the UK at least this device is known as a "puck". Very few people
    outside of the CAD industry will be aware of it :)

    --
    Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.
     
    #10
  11. Okay, well for me a digitizer is a general term for something that convertssomething analog to a digital representation. It can be a "graphics tablet", scanner or a light pen etc (in fact, the first consumer scanners that came out during the 80s were called "digitizers"). I usually refer to the device used for CAD applications as a "graphics tablet" and I think that's theterm Fairlight used for the series III's input device as well. That's why I got a bit confused.

    Anyway, thanks for the info Ken! It makes sense now.

    M
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Brendan Heading [mailto:brendanheading at clara.co.uk]
    > Sent: den 25 augusti 2002 16:05
    > To: isaotomita at yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [isaotomita] The Cosmo synthesizer
    >
    >
    > In message <3D68E3F3.C0ADB84B at din.or.jp>, Ken Terao <jarod at din.or.jp>
    > writes
    >
    > >> Hmmm, is this a "scanner"?
    > >
    > >No, it is not.
    > >Don't you know the "digitizer" which is input device for CAD ?
    >
    > In the UK at least this device is known as a "puck". Very few people
    > outside of the CAD industry will be aware of it :)
    >
    > --
    > Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
    > Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > isaotomita-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
     
    #11
  12. Hi Mikael,

    > That's why I got a bit confused.

    OK, I see.
    I think that a "graphics tablet" is almost same as a digitizer.
    However, in Japan, I think that "pen (or graphics) tablet" and "digitizer" are
    distinguished about input accuracy.

    I think that the device name of a digitizer is not good.
    It is because it is the word of a meaning called the device which digitizes.
    However, when I do web reference of the "digitizer", it is a fact that there
    are many sites which are using the device name of a digitizer. :)

    Thanks,

    Ken
     
    #12
  13. Funny you should mention the Puck - It was designed by logitech ---
    It used the drivers from the Spacetec Inc. Spaceball...
    The reason I know about that is because I used to test it for a living before I got laid off...
    I used to test it with 3ds max, with autocad, and the Space Orb 360 was thegame version for quake, etc...I am willing to bet The "digitizer" they are really speaking of is a SAMPLER device.
    It recorded audio onto a ROM sound chip.... Casio made one of the first cheap samplers,
    and it was only 8 bit. It's interesting that you say that he could inpute the waveform manually, though - he might have used a computer program through the rs-232 port to draw a waveform on the sampler....or transfer audio toit....
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Brendan Heading
    To: isaotomita at yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 10:04 AM
    Subject: Re: [isaotomita] The Cosmo synthesizer


    In message <3D68E3F3.C0ADB84B at din.or.jp>, Ken Terao <jarod at din.or.jp>
    writes

    >> Hmmm, is this a "scanner"?
    >
    >No, it is not.
    >Don't you know the "digitizer" which is input device for CAD ?

    In the UK at least this device is known as a "puck". Very few people
    outside of the CAD industry will be aware of it :)

    --
    Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Caill do chlú agus faigh ar ais é, agus ní hé an rud céanna é.

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    #13
  14. >
    > Funny you should mention the Puck - It was designed by logitech ---
    > It used the drivers from the Spacetec Inc. Spaceball...
    > The reason I know about that is because I used to test it for a living before I got laid off...
    > I used to test it with 3ds max, with autocad, and the Space Orb 360 was the game version for quake, etc...I am willing to bet The "digitizer" they are really
    > speaking of is a SAMPLER device.

    We've been talking about circa 1984 and how technically Tomita got
    waveshapes he got from astonomers into his sampler. Actually I remember
    back then a puck was a generic term for the kind of graphic input device
    usually with crosshairs that you could use sort of mouselike but I
    believe it would input an actual coordinate rather than a mouse which
    just changes relative position based on the direction the ball rolls. I
    suspect Logitec was reviving the basic with their specific product I
    presume sometime in the 1990s

    For what its worth I certainly remember the term *digitizing* tablet for
    what you'd use a special pen on to draw or input data. Any physical
    world info put in to the computer would generally be termed digitizing.

    > It recorded audio onto a ROM sound chip.... Casio made one of the first cheap samplers,
    > and it was only 8 bit.

    you are talking about the Casio SK1 from 1986... but that was aimed at
    the the home market. What Casio was trying to do, and I'm sure they
    listened at least to what Tomita was advising them, was to make a line
    of professional music products.

    One of the things Casio was sure that would make a big splash would be a
    16 bit sampler. Remember in the early 80s Tomita was buying these
    incredibly costly digital systems (like the Synclavier II... and
    sampling on that cost extra! and Emu had their Emulator 1 and later 2
    which were $8000 and fairly simplistic, obvioulsy the II in 1984 was an
    improvement though still not 16 bit). Casio came out with it in '87
    after launching their pro line with the well priced but confusing if it
    was professional CZ-1 in 1985. I mention the CZ-1 because some of the
    literature called it a Cosmo Synthesizer-- I presume meaning the product
    line. It used Phase distortion to make genuine digital synthesis in a
    different method to the pateneted Yamaha FM method. The 16bit FZ-1
    finally came out in 1987 and it did manage to be the first affordable 16
    bit sampler. You could draw your own waveform with sliders and buttons.
    On the downside for Casio, Ensoniq had come out with the professional
    but lower spec Mirage the year before and in the long run the Akai S900
    also was out before also. Akai is significant because their approach
    pretty much became the standard (though they were only 12 bit back
    then). While Casio had the good price and specs, people weren't
    comfortable with the brand, already saw numerous incompatible sampler
    disk formats and casio didn't intitally offer hard drives and never
    CD-ROMs or compartively large amounts of memory.

    Casio is teased today because they actually were selling as well or
    better than other pro instruments but word has it that those numbers
    didn't satisfy casio. Then they made the illfated second generation
    digital synths, the VZ series. They didn't really explain as well as say
    Roland why you just had to buy one vis a vis improvements and bells and
    whistles. They sold okay but okay was a real failure for Casio and they
    soon stopped their pro products line. By that time the Korh M1 rompler
    had become the model that caught the market's attention and successors
    dominated the market until ironically the fake analog synths came along
    in the late 90s. I remember their portable DAT machine for the early 90s
    wasalso was well priced and quite usable, but they didn't sell enough of
    those either I guess.


    It's interesting that you say that he could inpute the waveform
    manually, though - he might have used a computer program through the
    > rs-232 port to draw a waveform on the sampler....or transfer audio to it....

    Thats a good debate. re: exact method. Its certainly a simple enough
    process to accomplish any number of ways if one is working with a
    hardware developer, it just looks daunting to a musicican who doesn't
    develop digital gear and just uses regular instruments.

    nick
     
    #14
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