US Presidential Campaign nominees

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Teddz, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Teddz

    Teddz Sexy Swedish Love ♥

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    So...as the elections are coming in ~6 months time, I think we should discuss politics and whether how the "nominees" are "suitable" or not.

    Just a place to flame your political agenda.

    I for one, am from Europe, more importantly Sweden. Therefore, I am considered a communist, marxist and socialist human being.
     
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  2. That guy!

    That guy! Expecting Father

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    Being from Canada, I'm just wondering how the whole "Buy American" provision in the US might impact us (and themselves if the rest of the world, in turn, decides to adopt their own "Don't Buy American" provision). I'm also wondering what's going on with the oil sands pipeline. A couple things I'll be keeping an eye on over the next while.
     
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  3. Basher

    Basher Mad Writing Skillz

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    I am all for this. It will help me decide who I want to vote for. Nice idea. Should we wait until after they are nominated for running or just join right in now?

    "Buy American" won't work. It will sink other countries economy's. Americans should know better by now. Tsk tsk. Plus its illegal by our US Constitution. (Watched an episode of Harry's Law for that info.)

    I know people hate Obama but USA is messed up country economy wise before he took office. He is trying to fix it. If there was a simple way to do it then it would have been done by now.

    One of my greatest concerns are with school lunches at least for non-college youngsters. (Of course there is more wait until after this week and I will dive right in. Finals.)
     
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  4. wertitis

    wertitis Proud Mary keep on burnin'

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  5. Basher

    Basher Mad Writing Skillz

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    Nice way to say it all Wertie. Lets move to the moon. I heard that their are spaces to buy there.

    I didn't know that congress actually did it. Pizza sauce? You don't eat a full serving of it unless you overload it with sauce or eat the whole pizza. Fries? Urg. I have watched shows on school lunches that considered fries as a vegetable which is ridiculous. ***Changing this will be one of the things I am looking for in a President. ***Making Jamie Oliver into President of Meals or School Lunches will be the second.
     
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  6. wertitis

    wertitis Proud Mary keep on burnin'

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    Don't forget, this is also getting squeezed through Congress. Same with SOPA. Same with PIP.

    I honestly believe that our government has lost its mind. I mean that in the literal sense- I watch this circus play out on TV and I've never been more embarrassed to be an American. Obama renewed the Patriot Act. Tea Partiers have turned Congress into a divided rumpus room. Osama is dead, yet our civil liberties are still being stripped away year by year. Hell, we can't even sign a damn budget without getting our credit rating downgraded. Both houses have degenerated into infantile, fear-mongering finger pointers. If this appropriation bill gets signed by the current administration... Well, let's just say Ron Paul will be getting my vote whether or not he's the Republican Candidate. I hate the guy for his heavy religious beliefs, but his stance on Civil Liberties is spot on.

    Or better yet- Come on, Supreme Court! That's what you're there for. Destroy all this bad legislation with complete impunity!

    How's Canada? I might be moving up there soon. Will you guys have any room for all us American refugees?

    ~W
     
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  7. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    I don't think you'll find a country on the planet that's completely in love with whoever is in charge. You're welcome to come up here if you can tolerate change. For starters, try higher taxes and a health care system stretched thin over available professionals resulting in long hospital waits and physician shortages.

    Besides, why would you want to abandon what is usually the most entertaining political arena in the world? I swear many Canadians I know can tell you about what's going on in US politics but are completely in the dark about their own neck of the woods.
     
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  8. Firefox

    Firefox Member

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    You forgot to mention the awful, AWFUL Conservative government that is bent on ruining the lives of everyone that isn't wealthy :/
     
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  9. Teddz

    Teddz Sexy Swedish Love ♥

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    Americans. Please answer me this single and silly question.

    Why are you so afraid and terrified with socialism and with raising taxes?

    Sweden has the highest tax-rate in the entire planet (30% tax off on my 28,000 SEK (~4000 USD) paycheck every month, taxes on EVERYTHING (food, drinks, books, clothes, porn (;_;), electronics etc)) but also having this free-trade market despite being a "socialist, marxist, communist state (insert link to trololololololo video here)". Our current leader is a moderate liberal, trying to privatize everything as lately, the pharamices have been privatized, our public transport to name some. But the thing is, we have high-taxes and we have been a socialist state for quite a time now due to the previous socialist party being in charge but we get so much from it. When the swedish socialist party were on their top, they reformed and changed alot. The taxes were raised, people complained of course, but the benefits from those tax-raises have proven to be awesome sauce in several aspects:

    For example: Free university education for everyone that are applying. Yes, this includes high-rated universities such as Karolinska Institute (Top ranked EU med-school), Stockholms University, Chalmers Technical Insitute and my alumni: Royal Insitute of Technology (Chalmers and RIoT are...well...let's say Carnegie Mellon and MIT of Sweden).

    And also: We get paid to go to school.

    Each month, the goverment hands out around 300 - 900 (100% loan) USD during the semester so that students can afford to buy food, pay rents and materials, beer etc. Sure, there are some very strict REGULATIONS AND RULES ZOMG that allows students to receive the money: each semester is 60 credits, students must pass 75% of the credits in order to receive the money next semester. This allows teenagers and youths from every aspect of the middle, working and upper-class to enroll in University and get an education, which in terms will benefit future markets as the more people have a solid education, the more it will help society. Also, it provides an external motivational reason on why we should get an education.

    Our health care system is arguebly one of the countries greatest achievements as everyone is ensured by the goverment. Sure, it is only 9.1% gdp costs, the waiting times are long and the doctors can be somewhat retarded but we pay a maximun fee of 80USD for each normal health-check up, capped yearly for $400, while children have free healthcare checkups untill they turn 18. Same thing with the dental plan. Every citizen (Swede, immigrant etc) from each "class" is considered equal as the richest people visits the same hospital as Joe the plumber. The hospital are NOT privately owned as each county owns the hospital, which allows us to provide the health coverage to every individual. It is also mandatory for our job-place to give us...I think, in my company, 2-3 weeks paid sick-leave. If I discover that I am sick, I just need to call my boss and get paid (as long I can prove that I was sick, lol).

    If my future wife (Jessica, from Girls' Generation ohlolololol) is pregnant, the Swedish law states that there is a 18 month maturnity leave with at least, 80-90% pay during the period that the mother is with the child. Fathers have...10-12 months, if I can recall correctly. Even if I showed up at work, with my boss knowing that I have maturnity leave, he would actually force me to go back home and spend time with my children. The Swedish Law states that parents _have_ to be present during the most fragile and important years of the children growing up. Oh, and they still keep their jobs after going on a maternity leave.

    When my mom gave birth to my sister, the hospital asked my parents the following:

    "You took a cab here?"
    "Yes we did....how come?"
    "Well, we would like to pay the fee instead."

    Taxes are annoying, I get it. You don't want to give away more money to the goverment because it is considered to socialist, communist and will create a society where freedom to spend and commericalizing is cursed and you will never be able to buy that 69 inch plasma TV that you will never use anyway. Just because you earn $1 Million per year, wow, I know that you rage because the government is taking your money and spending it to things that you cannot afford to get.

    Sure, I admit. I do get somewhat annoyed with the high-taxes rates but that feeling disappears quite quickly once I realize that I can sleep soundly at nights, knowing that I will be granted health care, if I get sick tomorrow and whether I have money or not.

    Oh, by the way, gay marriages are legal here in Sweden and the sun is still shining, the country is still intact and the soil underneath us has not opened itself with Satan looking up and going "waddup, fistpump dance-off". That last bit would be funny. Especially when our head church Bishop is a lesbian.
     
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  10. wertitis

    wertitis Proud Mary keep on burnin'

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    In order to understand the US, you've got to understand a few things. First- the Bible supersedes any other document in the nation, to include the Constitution, our Bill of Rights, Lawmaking, ect. Small, extremely religious groups are making 90% of the noise, and if they had their way we'd be living in a theocracy, not a democracy. Texas has already led the way by changing their history text books to reflect a Christian orientation. Outside of a few, select states, being a Muslim (or worse, an Atheist) makes you a social pariah. The bible has been cherry picked to all hell, as well. Certain passages and verses are proclaimed as true while others are ignored or cast aside. Hence the anti-gay sentiments most states have. It's pretty much religiously sanctioned "racism". Queers are abominations, just like blacks and whites inter-marrying, or women voting. Teddz, all your "Facts" and "Reasonable Arguments" about how successful Sweden is are lost upon those who cling (sometimes violently) to the Bible. Jesus is right, and you are wrong. What's worse, our country has cultured a society that blindly 'respects' differing religious opinions (as long as your religion is Christian based), all in the name of political correctness. So average men and women, who are religious but not boisterously so, are calling foul those who slam Christian zealots, because it's not 'PC'. There's an attitude of 'let people believe what they want to believe- religion is out of bounds for criticism', and that needs to go away. Religion in the US drives policy and law, and it's used to influence voters. I'm sure you've seen how out of control it's starting to get. If faith were something that stayed in the church and in the home, there wouldn't be a problem, but as many gays and lesbians will tell you, it's not and people are being hurt because of it.

    Secondly- The terrorists have won. Our government is in shambles, fear is on the rise, zealotry is rampant, we are broke, stretched too thin and now we are working to silence a growing opposition by censoring the internet and locking up American citizens suspected of being a terrorist indefinitely and without trial- all of this under the guise of Protecting the American Public. Our own police use chemical weapons on its own citizens, chemical weapons that not even the military cannot use in times of war. All this is fueled by an unnatural fear of terrorism. Power has polarized upwards and the average person are becoming weaker and weaker. And anyone who does not embrace these new changes are un-American, and supportive of the Terrorist regime. We went through a long Cold War fighting against socialism, and the real irony is that while our economic system is still capitalist, our government is becoming increasingly communist. There's an image of the poor being leeches on society, and that only the wealthy can save us from ruination. By taking power and money away from the wealthy we'll be damning our country to socialism and we will become just like the USSR, or Nazi Germany. The thing is, we're already halfway there. The terrorists have won, of that there is no doubt.

    Thirdly- We are a nation of spoiled children. Those making all the money up top do not want to pay more taxes, and usually get away with paying almost nothing every year. Conversely, most of the tax burden is on the middle and lower class. The thing is, the middle class don't want to pay anymore either. Right now it's a fight to see who can get taxed more, and if the Republicans win, it will be the middle class and if the Democrats win... it will probably still be the middle class. People believe that they earned their money, so why should it go to anyone else? Why should I pay for someone else's welfare when I worked for that money? It's a country full of Baby Boomers and their children who are as greedy and narcissistic as they were when they were 5 years old. But we're "American" and we like to think we're good Christians by helping out the fellow man, so we'll pass bills that will appropriate money to the less fortunate (money that comes from the Government), but we won't put a dime more into the system than we have to. California is a great example of this. In short, we're spending more than we're making, so we'd rather play "pass the blame" than try to funnel more money into the government by raising taxes.

    ~W
     
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  11. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    Wow, this thread has quickly dipped into mixing the two single topics most guaranteed to cause a flame war - politics and religion. I'm going to close it yet, but I am going to add a cautionary note in advance of any pending disaster. Religion and politics are very personal subjects for many people. Anyone participating in this discussion should keep that in mind and try and stay clear of offending remarks or discrimination, and likewise, anyone who easily offends from commentary on religion or politics should steer clear. If thing gets out of hand, this topic will be locked. Thanks, carry on.

    Add to that the fact that even though it's not a two-party system, you're pretty much forced to vote for the biggest left or right movement or you're throwing your vote away. Look at the results from our last election where Conservatives won a house majority, even though they only garnered a 39% share. Why? Because Canadians were split on the left - NDP with 30% of the votes and Liberals with 18%. Now explain to me why PC has 166 seats in the house of commons while NDP and Liberal have 137 combined when the voting share was 39% versus 48%? WTF. Our system has obvious issues that I just can't comprehend, least of which is one major right wing (PC) and split on the left (NDP, Liberal, Bloc).

    I use my large television daily and heavily, thanks. :) Had I upgraded to over 50 inch, I would surely used it just as much. My PC, consoles and entertainment unit are all wired in and revolve around it.

    Re: Remarks of the bible and extremists, I personally detest this. Yes, to Christians it is the most important book. However, it boggles my mind when people take to heart as literal truth. The important part of those teachings is the overall messages it conveys and not the fine print. Let's start with the Old Testament, originally assembled from material handed down primarily from word of mouth over generations - very few old manuscripts are still around. Ever played the children's game "telephone"? They line up, the first child comes up with a phrase and whispers it in the ear of the next, that child whispers to the next and so on until it gets to the last child who says the phrase aloud. By the time it reaches the end of the line of children, it has undergone changes due to errors in transmission, sometimes not even resembling what it started as. Ever told the same story over and over to different groups of people? The delivery tends to change - you forget to mention some minor details and insert some others. The basic story is the same, but each time you tell it there are variations. Heck, even closer to home for Christians - have you read all four gospels? Same story recounted, but differences abound - all major events are present, but minor details change. That's why I can't understand extremists who claim that "everything in the bible is true" - there is no way all that material was retold generation upon generation without undergoing changes. Extrapolate from it, interpret it, understand it, but don't be shackled to it.

    I've gone off on tangents around Christianity before, but I always circle back to the two great commandments which make absolute sense, supersede everything before and after them, and if taken to heart, would clearly forbid racism and homophobia.
     
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  12. Teddz

    Teddz Sexy Swedish Love ♥

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    I find it worrying that a country as well developed and "sensible" like the United States are still so indulged with religion. Religion should and have been something that is, as you said, practice in Church or at home. Reading about the "war on Christmas" makes me want to facepalm so hard (I am not taking a go here on Religion) and it is worrying.

    Sweden has a multi-party system and we have a party sitting in our government known as the "Christian Party" and yet, the nation is still intact, without any extremists or fundamentals going berserk. Then again, a majority of the Swedes are either atheists or "don't care" about religion at all.

    And yet, people want to changes to be made but veto every budget/healthcare/whoopidoo suggestion that the Obama Adminstration makes or even suggest and comes to scrutiny whenever he does a mistake or nothing has ever changed. It feels just so irresponsible for a nation to be stuck in a loop that never seems to be going anywhere, and yet the rich, never seem to bother about how others have but spends tones of money on charity instead of paying off high taxes. "Oh the horror, we are paying money to a random private owned charity business but not to the government that might actually can do some decent changes."

    What are the thoughts of the upcoming presidential candidates anyway? Would any of the Bachmanns, Gingrichs, Perrys and Romneys actually be a possible president of the US in 2012?
     
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  13. wertitis

    wertitis Proud Mary keep on burnin'

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    quote="BakaMattSu, post: 278536, member: 19"] Re: Remarks of the bible and extremists, I personally detest this. Yes, to Christians it is the most important book. However, it boggles my mind when people take to heart as literal truth. The important part of those teachings is the overall messages it conveys and not the fine print. [/quote]

    The problem with American Politics is that they walk hand in hand with religion. It's insanely difficult to discuss one without bringing up the other. If I sound incised against the religious right, I don't mean to be. 90% of folks are reasonable people with reasonable families and reasonable views, open minded and understanding. Unfortunately, they aren't the ones making all the noise. It's the fanatical religious groups (Westboro, anyone?) who are making the ruckus. If you have a room with 9 adults and a single baby, all anyone is going to hear is the baby wailing. The same is true here.

    In the bible belt, most students are led to believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, and that fossils are the result of the great flood. So, yes, I agree with you. It's very disheartening when people take it as the literal truth. As I mentioned before, it wouldn't be an issue if these same people preaching this weren't government policy makers. Public, government funded schools are teaching 'intelligent design' as an alternative to evolution. If you're anything but a Christian, this is grossly offensive, not to mention insulting to ones intelligence. The government is teaching bible study- the line between church and state is swiftly eroding. Therein lies the problem.

    Teddz: I hear ya, man. The thing is, we don't trust our government with money. Most of it seems to go into pork spending and the military. There's comparatively little sent toward infrastructure, so people are not seeing a return on their taxes. These are problems with Congress, and I don't see them getting cleared up anytime soon. Not unless the nation rallies together and votes out the House and Senate.

    As for the original topic- Bachmann is on her way out. The woman is madder than a march hare. Her goal was to get the Palin votes, and that fell through wonderfully. Rick Perry is also done. I don't know if you noticed that link I put up earlier, but it's for Rick Perry's actual campaign ad. Look at the upvotes vs downvotes. He's already got one foot in the grave. Mitt Romney is holding on by a thread, but most people aren't too enamored with him. If Newt self destructs (which I think he will, considering how corrupt he is plus his adultery scandal(s)) the bid will probably go to Romney. The Media is making damn sure Paul does not get any face time. They will not even acknowledge him, despite his strong showing. The fact that he's performing as well as he is, is a testament to his campaign. If he had one news outlet backing him, he would stand a good chance to win the nomination. Unfortunately, Paul is Libertarian, which the GOP does not want a part of.

    IMO, the only one who could stand toe to toe with Obama is Paul. Obama's been lagging in the polls recently, and Ron Paul is the only one who can take advantage of that. Romney and Gingrich are dead in the water. As I said before, though, Paul isn't tried and true Republican. So the odds are not favorable.

    ~W
     
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  14. Firefox

    Firefox Member

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    I'm only briefly gonna touch on Canadian politics cause it's not the topic of this thread.

    You got a good point there and I agree with you, although I doubt there's going to be any change out here in blue Alberta.

    And truth be told, seeing the NDP's rising star next to the Liberals' (and the Bloc's) falling ones, it's very understandable they wouldn't be interested in a merger. How would the media, and the public react to see them joining up with corrupt pigs, or separatists?

    Our system needs some work, but I guarantee it'll never happen- none of the parties will ever legislate away the system that brought them into poweer.




    As for our neighbors down south, I have to admit I don't know any of the candidates' names or backgrounds save for Obama's, and truth be told I don't think he's done that great a job in his first term. I don't think his rival in the first election would have done any better, but the fact of the matter as I see it is that Obama's personal popularity has dropped enough that it may be wiser for him not to seek re-election- how many people will vote for the other candidate, or refrain from voting entirely, simply because they don't want to give Obama a second chance?

    werty; I've been to the US on several occasions, and in places ranging from California, Texas, Missouri, and all the states on the way. Although I know there are people like that, I believe they are a small minority. I think most Americans are just average people like you or me, no?

    The problem that the US has is that its entire voting system is broken. The electoral college system needs to go, and the country needs to open up to the possibility of more than two candidates. I am aware there have been third parties before, but really, none of them have ever come close.

    People need to have a reason to vote; a reason to believe that their effort will make a difference. With the "winner-take-all" approach of the current system, people that feel their candidate might not win may just as well stay at home and save themselves the bother. What was the actual turnout in the last election? 11%?



    As far as policy- I think before the US can consider moving to the left- which it should, there isn't nearly enough of a support network in the US for the poor, the sick, and the disadvantaged as there should be- though before they do anything, I think it's important that the budget get balanced and the national debt be brought back down within acceptable limits. Anyone remember when it was $1.4 trillion, rather than $14 trillion?

    Well, and I would write more, but it's quite late and I gotta work two jobs tomorrow. So, that's it for now~
     
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  15. wertitis

    wertitis Proud Mary keep on burnin'

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    Oh yes, I agree. The fanatical right is only a small percentage of American Christians. Most folks are nice enough people. It's that small margin that's causing many of the issues.

    The electoral college works (most of the time). Bush's first term was one of those rare flukes that generally works as intended.

    No, the problem is the debate system. We actually have a bunch of candidates on the ballots, but only two are ever present during an election debate- the incumbent and his rival, and since the two biggest parties are Dems and Reps, they are the only ones who fit all the "rules" to allow them a seat at said debates. The last time I saw three people at a presidential election debate, it was Ross Perot back when Clinton was first running for office (with Bush Senior as the third man), and Perot got in only by a slim margin. If the other viable candidates cannot even appear at the debates, then of course they will not stand a chance during the election. In this sense, the two leading parties have monopolized their positions of power by muscling out any other party.

    ~W
     
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  16. Teddz

    Teddz Sexy Swedish Love ♥

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    Looks like Romney is in the lead instead of mr Gingrich.

    The plot thickens...
     
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  17. wertitis

    wertitis Proud Mary keep on burnin'

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    According to the Iowa boards, Paul is slightly ahead of Newt. Romney is hated by everyone, though if he gets the nomination, it will be because everyone else had bottomed out. There's not many folks left to take the spot light, except Ron Paul.

    Well, perhaps Santorum. Though I strongly doubt that. I predict that it will come down to a battle between Paul and Romney, and Romney will get it because the GOP does not want someone like Paul running for their party, no matter how much support he has.

    Fun Fact: Do NOT google image search the word Santorum. Thanks Jon Stewart.

    ~W
     
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  18. Firefox

    Firefox Member

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    lol Santorum :V I remember when that word was first being defined as something other than a moronic senator.

    You guys should just vote for me. I could fix everything easily enough.

    From my understanding, the choice is between some guy who won't make things any better, and some guy who won't make things any better. What difference does it make who gets voted in?
     
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  19. Basher

    Basher Mad Writing Skillz

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    So is there a list of what they stand for? Well each of the candidates.
     
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  20. Teddz

    Teddz Sexy Swedish Love ♥

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    And...Romney is in the lead.

    Good luck America :D
     
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