Debate Corrupted or just Bad Eggs?

I was having this discussion with a good friend the other day, and I figured this place was the best of any to get feedback. So the question is:

Are humans born good at heart, but corrupted over the years due to enviornment or other questionable factors? Or are some of us just bad eggs to begin with?

 

To be perfectly honest, I think all humans are born with the instincts they needed at one time to survive. Because these instincts are (obviously) no longer needed, they instead become more of a burden. This is interpreted by other people as that person being rude or corrupt, or a "bad egg".

So, by my definition, and following your questions guidelines, I'd say all humans are born "bad eggs", but some take the potential to turn this around.

 

Baphijmm's right. Human tendencies - aggression, manipulation, lust, greed, as well as the "good" traits - are all rooted in evolution. They're survival tactics. We all start out with a certain basic potential which has been programmed into us, and then our behaviors are shaped both by our own personalities and by what we learn.

Since this is basically a facet of the "nature versus nurture" concept, you can look at it like this: there is no person who's either completely "good" or completely "bad." There are, however, people who are able to or inclined to control themselves better than others, and who place more importance on following what they and/or society believe is right. Furthermore, standards of good and bad change over time and vary by culture. So, what may be perceived as an undesirable trait in one culture - for example, the ability to kill another person - might be seen as heroic in another, typically in places where combat is frequent and there are strong lines drawn between groups by opposing beliefs or grudges.

The only true "bad eggs" that I can think of are individuals with severe psychological problems, which cause them to do violent or cruel things for no logical reason. However, with a mentally ill individual such as a psychopath or pyromaniac, this is a psychological and possibly chemical problem and not necessarily a case where society could have influenced the person one way or another. These people don't tend to act with logic or reason, so to place them in a category like good or bad just isn't reasonable.

So... I suppose it can actually go both ways. I think that everyone who is free of severe imbalances has the potential to be a good person - just as all people equally have the potential to go bad, whether do to circumstance, upbringing, or whatever. But some people do come into the world without the capacity to learn or maintain conscious restraint, and some lose that ability without any logical reason to.

I'd like to think that everyone is basically good. But really, humans are a mixed bag. "Good" is an abstract concept that we impose on ourselves. If anything, I think that we're born as a jumble of possibilities, with some tendencies stronger than others - and then our own minds, in conjunction with societal values, shape us as we grow.

 

I think its a combination of the two.

As a general rule, most people are born naturally to do good. Of course some of them are then turned into "bad eggs" over the years due to their enviroment.

There are also people who are born "bad eggs". People who had great upbringings, good life, privately and publicly, but for some reason turn out rotten.

 

Expect my reply to be ever-contradicting itself and all around confusing. ;P (Especially considering I just woke up). Anyways...

I, really, like to believe that it all comes down to corruption. I like to believe that it has to do, something, with the enviroment someone is subjected to, how they are raised, etc. That's my own personal opinions on the matter. Of course as far as I know there have been studies that have shown that it could possibly be the genes, that if two twins are raised in completely different enviroments.. one lives in the ghetto, one lives in an upstate rich-people's home, one drops out, one graduates from college, etc., it's possible they could both end up the same (as far as being a murderer, a rapist, etc. goes. I don't have any sources offhand, unfortunately but when I find one, I'll post it). But, either way... I like to think nurture over nature (cause... Hell... if not, that means I'm screwed ;P).

 

i think.

that every human is born Good. you can not be evil if you no nothing of evil. :sweat2:

its something that gradually happens over the years as you grow. witch really brings up another Debate topic. what effects their parents have had on them. :catgirl:

-- Captain

 

Baph pretty much hit it right on the head, to be honest.

 

I think at first all children are born to do good but as soon as we communicate with other people and undergo human interactions our human nature starts to come forth and some of us turn into the 'bad eggs'.

 

Well, this brings us back to the idea that "good" and "evil" are these pre-existing things that are just natural to us. They aren't. Kids aren't born with morals, they have to be learned. A baby doesn't get upset if they break a well-loved piece of heirloom jewelry. S/he wouldn't understand that what they had done was hurtful, just as they can't understand the concept of monetary value yet. Evil and good, as abstract concepts, can only be given form and label through interaction with other people, because we have to learn about these purely human concepts. They're not naturally a part of the living experience, like hunger or pain - they're just ideas, formed by cultural standards.

Animals don't have a concept of good and evil, as far as anyone knows. Animals can learn things that they should or should not do - and they can be trained. But they can't comprehend that biting a person is morally wrong; only that if they do, they'll be yelled at and punished. They learn through cause and effect. Moral "wrongness" is something for higher intelligence. And it has to be taught.

So, it's true in a way that society is a corrupting influence on the mind, because it gives us the capacity to understand what "evil" is, and once we know that, we can choose to do evil things in complete disregard of other people's feelings. However, by that same standard, "good" has to be taught. These concepts don't work by themselves. You've got to have both to explain one. All cultures have an idea of good and evil, but what falls into those categories can vary - since good and evil are defined by what's culturally acceptible, rather than being concrete and self-contained, they really cannot exist seperately. To see that something is evil, you have to know what is good, etc.

So, NeoNoodle, I'd argue that until you learn about good and evil, you can't be either. A child raised without human interaction would act according to whatever it had learned about the world through it's own perceptions, and would never learn to do or not do things based on moral value.

 

I think that it all depends on how somebody was brought up. People who are involved in crime more often then not have their own children following in their own footsteps cause they propably taught the child that this is okay or this is what we do.
Of course that's not to say that all children will turn out fine if their parents are good honest people. I found out that a neighbour of mine was in prison for possesion of drugs and a gun, and i know that the parents were decent people. I think that someones friends and who they hang around with can also have an influence on what they may think is ok. They may do things that they know they shouldn'd but will do it anyway to get in with the crowd.

So i think that it all depends on how somebody was brought up and who they interact with as they do grow up.

 

I don't think people are born bad or good. Your enviroment shapes you. Look at the childern who were raised by animals, and were totally cut off from the world. They adapted, and gained the behaviors of those that raised them. Later with those who were taken in by humans, some developed speech skills, and had seminormal lives. They were usually considered mentally retarded because as babies they didn't have the same mental stimulation as other children. So I would say enviroment creates the personality.

 

Ah...this reminds me of a discussion I had in English class. We had read both The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and Lord of the Flies. Our topic was: were humans naturally good, while soceity corrupts(Huck Finn), or is it the other way around(LotF)? I believe in pretty much what Baph had to say, too. Not much more I can elaborate on that.

 

I think that Iit depends on what kind of a family you grow up in, what kind of an environment you grow up in. I think no one is born bad, they grow to be bad (if they are ever bad).

 

Does it really depend on genetics?

That would be a major issue for eugenics and nazis. I think sincerely that there is no gene for goodness or evil. It depends on our environment, and our own choices.

 

What corrupted is can be an opinion. One person may see any Beer as corrupted, while another may see drinking beer as natural. To me you just are born with instinct and a capability of thought, only crazy people are naturally inclined to do possible evil. While the rest of us are affected by our surroundings, but even the son of a serial killer can turn out fine.