Debate Devil's Advocate Mk II - Xtreme Fandom

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ark, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. Ark

    Ark Praise Judas!

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    Welcome to the second edition of the Devil's Advocate. Today's hornets nest is simple:

    Not all things from Japan are great.

    Many otaku and anime fans in general seem to hold all things Japanese in an extremely high regard. Candy that really isn't all that special becomes the best thing ever, merely by crossing the ocean. Shows that are nothing more than the Japanese equivalents of 'Friends' or other sitcoms are regarded as far superior to all Western programming. Why is this?

    It seems to me that, once a person crosses a certain line of fandom, their judgement becomes clouded with japanamania.

    The question here is simple: How much of what you like would you like if it came from America (Or Canada, or Ireland, or Britain, wherever applies to you)?

    Remember people, support your arguements ;) Happy debating!

    - Ark
     
    #1
    Ark, Jul 17, 2003
  2. Mad_Hamish

    Mad_Hamish New Member

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    Yeah I know what you mean. Some people treat Japan like it's some kind of promised land. Everything from there is a god sent.

    Especially anime fans.
    I'm a bit of a Japanophile(really just Asia in general) myself. But I don't have any delusions of the country, I just have an interest in it's culture and history(and it's women). I know it's not like it is in anime. A lot of people seem to confuse this.

    I know a guy in my class in college and he's totally obsessed with Japan. He'll do anything to get there. I dunno maybe he, like a lot of people, thinks that once he gets to Japan he'll fit in, his quality of life will improve or whatever.
     
    #2
    Mad_Hamish, Jul 17, 2003
  3. DrunkLeprachaun

    DrunkLeprachaun Tetsu Oushi

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    I'm pretty much the same as Hamish. I admit to a fair degree of bias towards crap out of japan, be it food, films, anime or music. I like some stuff that comes from japan that I would probably hate if they were american, point in case, the pillows. They're a fairly talented band, but most of their songs wouldn't appeal to me much if they were in enlish(engrish don't count). Pocky aswell, it is a nice snack, but it's probably not the greatest thing ever. buenos are nice, but I'd rather have a box of pocky than ten buenos. I can fully admit to it, I prefer stuff from japan for no good reason. It's not all consuming though, when something japanese sucks, I know it sucks. Like Noir. ****ing hate noir.
     
    #3
    DrunkLeprachaun, Jul 17, 2003
  4. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    I agree. Japan has its shortcomings just like any other place does. Not all things from Japan are great.

    But things simply coming from there suddenly get raised up in higher standing by the fandom. I really think the original debate is a bit slanted in favor of the original statement. I don't think any conscious person, no matter how badly influenced by japanamania, can admit to everything being all that great.

    So what is the real subject at hand? Perhaps more the fact that the mere origin of anything influences the evaluation of the end user.

    I chalk my theory up on foreign appeal. After so many years of being exposed to, and familiarizing with local media and culture, there eventually comes the yearning for something new and unique.

    And other countries are the best source for this, plain and simple. How more flavorful can you get than the views and creativity of people so different than yourself?

    Hong Kong movies, British Sitcoms, Japanese Animation, the list continues...they may be similar to American type counterparts, but they have uniqueness that other cultures can't match. No matter how hard an American cartoon tries to look Japanese, it doesn't quite do it. Its roots are in another culture, and this is what created it - imitation is never quite on par with the real thing.

    Which kind of ties in with the ongoing debate of sub vs dub. Watching something in English takes away from the cultural effect. The act of dubbing makes it seem more local and less foreign, which is imo a factor as to why so many dubs get labeled as bad. Before this point really gets rebutted into next Wednesday I'd like to say that a majority of dubs aren't half-bad, but the appeal of hearing the original audio track does link back to the foreign immersion.

    So are imported chopsticks from the People's Republic of China better than those in my local supermarket? Psychologically, yes.

    Would I label Cowboy Bebop a mediochre (rather than good as I see it) cartoon if Americans produced it? Due to foreign appeal, I likely wouldn't have even bothered to watch it once.

    Would I enjoy wearing vibrant tie-dye shirts with random english words on it? Perhaps. But likely not as much as my vibrant Japenese-lettered ones. Foreign appeal.

    My theory is that if I lived all my life in Japan, I'd probably be watching some lame American show that I would never bother with today.
     
    #4
    BakaMattSu, Jul 18, 2003
  5. DrunkLeprachaun

    DrunkLeprachaun Tetsu Oushi

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    I'll have to disagree with BMS on some of his points. I agree for the most part with his theory of being tired with one's culture, but I would still watch Bebop if it was american. I watch american cartoons when they're good, like Invader Zim or Hey Arnold. If Bebop was american, and as good as it is as japanese(which I don't think it would be, the themes are too adult for the type of cartoon, it would end up as a kids show in the states), I would watch and enjoy it.
    And I really want some engrish shirts(I'd wear them before shirts with japanese on them, they've become a little bit too mindlessly 'trendy').
     
    #5
    DrunkLeprachaun, Jul 19, 2003
  6. Bloodberry

    Bloodberry Bloody Berry
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    i like some candy stuff, some is just silly. not everything is meant to be candy flavoured. not all their music is great, just tolerable because you can't understand the cheesy words. it's a different sound to me, and i like it for the most part...
    pocky and yan yan as a mystery to me. i like them so much, but am not sure why. i think it's because they make the chocolate and stuff a little differently.
    i like the art, i think alot of it is better than some non-asian stuff. although, there's been some really crappy stuff too.

    people going around calling themselves otaku scare me. the ones that think there is no wrong in japan, that there's no hick-ish people, no jerks, that everyone is nice and smart and happy...it's creepy really if you start to think of a place full of human thoughts as some sort of utopia
     
    #6
    Bloodberry, Jul 23, 2003

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