Recreation "Mesianic" tendency in games / stories

Hi guys. I was playing Final Fantasy 3 when I realized something.

Don't you think that the

"i have these powers nobody else has, then in my search for my own identity i discover that i'm the one supposed to save the world"

theme has been used TOO much in RPG games? Or stories in general?

Just check this out. Imagine this kid with a strange birthmark, so after a lot of adventures he FINALLY makes it to the oracle (your typical old bearded guy wearing a cloak), and after examining and deliberation he says:

"Ah yes, this kid is the CHOSEN ONE. The one who shall defeat (put your megavillain's name here) and restore peace/order/happiness/harmony to the planet/world/universe/creation/ .

So, is it cliché or not?

Personally i think that the most interesting part is when the character starts discovering his own identity. Maybe it's part of our nature to find our identities, and so we feel identified with these 'self-discovering heroes'.

What do you think?

 

Hmmmm....

Hmmm....

Perhaps i should've named the thread "SECRET FOR A SUCCESSFUL RPG"

[EDIT] Hey, did you notice that THE MATRIX's plot follows the same idea? [/EDIT]

 

Now, I don't wanna get off on a rant here, but...

It's cliche, sure, but like any cliche, if the characters are good, it's easily over-looked. Like in FFIII, Terra was a great character, in my opinion, so I over-looked the whole "Wee, look at me, I'm special, Imma save the world, dahoy!" thing. Characters who are in denial for some time are a nice touch, not someone who's just like automatically up and at 'em like "Yay! Imma go save the world! Yaaaaaayyy!".

But that's just my opinion...

Anyways, to sum it all up. Sure, it's cliche. But as long as they have great characters, I'll always look over the cliche. Besides, without that cliche, there wouldn't be all that many RPGs to play, because not many other RPGs have you do much else besides save the world/country/continent/whatnot.

 

No....

Because it's a powerful story idea that, when executed well (and by that I mean with any originality and imagination) can make for a powerful game, story or anime. I personally find stories based on the Messianic theme fascinating in general.

 

actually, the messianic tendencies help me better identify with the character

 

Hmmm - hey i think something that's cooler.

The RELUCTANT hero!

that adds a lot to the story. The hero hesitates to save the world, feels that he's not worthy or he can be simply scared, or just the thought of being "THE ONE" makes him have a crisis.

What do you think?

 

And it's taken til Final Fantasy 10 for people to realise this?

It's the staple of Japanese RPGs and why I lost interest after FF7.

I used to love them. Now I'm sick of these little irritating teen heros.

We play these games pretty much for the stories and the stories have become real old.

What ever genius said "hey why can't the bad guy be some ancient evil, but the kicker is that you won't find out til your well into the story. And we could throw in a bi shonen or two aswell. Original huh?" deserves a kick in the stones.

It's okay for the first few times. But 10!!!!!
And that's only counting the FF games.

And don't get me started on the "young, troubled main character who learns about his dark past" crap.

I think the RPGworld comic sums it all up nicely.

http://www.rpgworldcomic.com/

Check it out.

 

It only really got that bad around five or six. And the whole ancient evil villain thing wasn't until seven. And yes, I realized this way before ten, that this seemed to be a running trend. But I like the games, even if the stories are all basically the same but with different characters. So I have no reason to complain about them being all the same if I like it. ::shrug:: But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

I always loved the idea of the hero being a normal guy.
Just your average every day dude, not "the one" or someone chosen by ancients or from birth or whatever. Just a normal dude.

Normal people are far more interesting than all that super hero bishonen crap.

A normal person aspiring to greatness is far more interesting than some one destined for greatness eventually getting there.

A dude who grew up with normal loving parents. And they didn't find him in a meteorite, he wasn't floating down the river, he wasn't given to them by magical people from the past or the future. He was born the same way we were and endured the same hardships we all have.

Well either that or a Clint Eastwood kinda character. I love Clint Eastwood movies.

 

yeah your right there. But it was used in plenty of games before FF7. Chrono Trigger comes to mind. I really liked that game though.

 

oh and why do all these games have to end up with you saving the world? never understood that.

The last game I played with a brilliant plot was Deus Ex for the PC. That was such a good game and had such a great story.

 

I like that! I love playing as the hero! Bishounen are a must! If there ends up being a Final Fantasy #207, you can bet I'll be first in line to buy it.

But, it would be refreshing to see other things. I want to play all RPGs. I love the characters, the setting, the tools (like in Wild Arms), and the movie scenes!

Still, it'd be refreshing to see it done differently. How about we all go rent RPGMaker 1 or 2 and report our results back here...Erm, not everybody has playstations...or PS2...

And what if, in the end of the game, there's alternate endings and in 2 of them, the characters don't succeed, but in one he/she snatchs victory from the jaws of defeat.

 

I kinda liked earthbound.

Saying that you need that kinda of character is rediculuos.
The cookie cutter characters they've been using for ages in RPGs is just a product of lazy writing and lack of originality.
There have been plenty of stories where the hero was just a normal guy. Okay none of them have been RPGs but that just prooves my point even further.
And the "need to do good" why does it have to be that? why can't it be a need to do something for himself a need to help a friend or family, they are just two very simple examples.

The need to anything can drive a character to do what it does.
It doesn't have to be just the need to do good.
We've been accepting these 2D characters for far to long now. I think its time they changed the whole thing.

And I'm not talking about making it all happy. The background of a lot of the FF characters read like the amtuer fiction or some angst ridden teenager. It's just laughable after a while.

People can relate more to these kind of characters too I think. They have more in common with us.
And you don't need psi powers or magic to make an RPG interesting. The Square way of making RPGs isn't the only way.

Am I the only one who thinks this? That the cookie cutter RPG heros need to go?

 

Yeah I know earthbound was pretty simple.
But that's not what I'm talking about.
I never played through all of that anyway. Lost interest.

And by having normal characters in RPGs it doesn't mean you'll be doing normal things. You're character isn't gonna be poping down the shops for a pack of ciggrettes and picking up some groceries for his mother since he was on the way. The point of RPGs is the adventure.

I think your taking normal a bit litterally, but I guess I haven;t really explained it.
Really no one is normal, so what I mean by it is that the character could be someone you could meet on the street. He/she could come from any walk of life, have numerous afflictions or merits, there could be plenty of interesting aspects to the character.
I'm not saying that he or she doesn't have a past. Everyone has a past and it can always come back to bite them in the ***.
And just cos it's a "normal" character doesn't mean weird sh*t can't happen to him.

Think about it. Who was a far more interesting character Luke Skywalker or Han Solo?

 

I defy you to name one final fantasy(barring I-III & V, because they don't count) that doesn't have at least one ordinary guy character. Sure, they might not be the main chatacters, but that doesn't stop them from being vital to the story. In say, FFIV, apart from Cecil, there are no 'Chosen By Teh G0dz0rz' characters more or less, considering that mages and stiff are common place. Just look at Edward, he's a puss. FFVI, Locke, just your average treasure hunter cum resistance member. Gau, some wierdo the party picked up on the veldt. Setzer, just a good gambler who joined the party by chance. VII, Tifa, a waitress in a bar cum resistance member. Barret, Cid, all of them, just guys who banded together because they were pissed at shinra. Also, Yuffie, just someone who wanted to steal the party's materia. FVIII, they're not really chosen, they're just at the right place at the right time. IX, just look at Quina.
If you look at it, most FF characters are just ordinary people under extraordinary circumstances. The reason characters like this aren't main characters is because people like people with missions. Another example of where this is implemented well is Breath Of Fire III, you're a dragon from the start of the game, but you don't know that, and so you just go around robbing stuff. That's another really good story. In closing, I don't think the final fantasy games have stale stories, they have brilliant characters, and there's always a plot twist or two to keep things interesting. Not to mention some of the best bad guys ever. Rantage Cessation.

 

WHOA....

I _never_ expected this thread to be so active! COOL!!!

yeah normal characters are great in an RPG.

You know a game i REALLY REALLY liked? Eye of the Beholder II.

Sure, the villain wanted to rule the world and everything. But he was just starting to gather power and wanted to begin with just ONE city. And the characters were a bit interesting (from tiny cut-scenes that is). And the atmosphere was so realistic that you began feeling you were ACTUALLY there (t' was first person). Anyway...

Yes, in FFVI there was Gau. I liked that character a lot. Gauuuuuuuuuuuuu!!! It was just amazing how he could do the special magic attacks even from undead monsters. Having him as the main character would be awesome.

So far i've seen something that gets REALLY boring into RPG's: Building levels.

Beat lots of enemies (boring), getting new abilities & weapons (boring), to finally defeat the bad guy. What i really like in RPG's are the sidequests, the interaction with NPC's (non player characters), and so on.

How about this: You're a bounty hunter and are given different missions. Hey, how about elliminating the levels COMPLETELY??? Yeah, having FIXED stats - not the crazy 5,000 HP superheroes at level 99. I mean, come on.

Or having a maximum of hit points. Or perhaps the levels would advance regarding the new fighting strategies you use, not just killing 20,000HP enemies with a superbioblaster tool and advancing 10 levels right away (yeah i'm exaggerating but you get the idea).

How about "troubled characters who learn about their past" but this has NOTHING to do with the quest?

i.e. You're an adopted child and in your quest to find your true family you have to defeat lots of monsters. Or perhaps you have some NATURAL ability - nothing like superpowers morph, maybe you're so tiny that you fit into chimneys and can crawl thru the vent systems and this makes you a valuable character in an important mission.

Remember the "neverending story"? Atreyu was just a normal kid. He wasn't a true superhero. Sure, he met very interesting characters, but he was normal. And at the end the real hero becomes Bastian, not Atreyu. Now that's a story.

Anyway, returning to RPG's - the success of saving the city or the country (not the world, please) could depend on your ability to steal the important papers, etc.

Yeah! Imagine this. Having LOTS LOTS LOTS of adventures and cities to save. You could become a hero, a famous one. Or perhaps in the sequels the hero becomes too old so the youngest companion succeeds him - but nobody has heard of him so he has to start from scratch.

That would make a lot of FANTASIES without coming to the all-feared FINAL.

Or how about if you're a COMPUTER HACKER? Heh that's cool. A high tech RPG!

And about "2D bishonen characters", well it's anime, what did you expect?

Yeah i like RPG's, but if the formula gets used too much then it becomes "JUST ANOTHER SAVE-THE-WORLD RPG".

What do you think?

-----
P.S. Couldn't there be a way to earn 1/5 of post (or something) for every answer to a post of yours?

 

RANDOMNESS

(Random Good Idea Mode)

Hmmm....yknow what comes to mind, as a great game idea?

Imagine Ogre Battle: March of the black queen, but, instead of on the massive control-hundreds-of-people-scale, be one squad in a war, seiging cities, striking tacticalk blows against the ene....oh wait....Tactics....*smacks self in head*

I like Harvest moon series, i think that was an interesting change in the RPG Genre. A few more games like this would be good...

Or maybe a game where you start out as a private in a war and ascend the ranks, eh?

 

Yay, someone who agrees with me.
Yeah there are some normal characters but they're never gone into in depth they are still pretty simple 2D characters.

Locke is cool though, he was my favourite character from ff6
Gau was just some monkey boy they found in their travels though. He wasn't any part of the plot or anything. His ablilty kicked *** though.
I've never played breath of fire 3, played 2 though. It was okay, never got to complete it.

luvweaver is getting the idea. You don;t need to stick to all the old RPG rules to make a good RPG.


No one answered my Luke or Han question.
For me it's Han all the way. He was just a normal dude and got invloved in somethinhg that in the begining he wished he didn't and then he got neck deep in it. And I think you'll agree with me that he had a pretty crazy adventure.

Luke is your typical chosen one. Sure he had a big adventure and all. But really to be honest he's a bit of a prat.

Could be why the new star wars movies suck so much ***.