Debate Open your eyes

I saw photos on T.V I hope pictures like this will spread around so that people will start thinking with their conscious instead of their greed. I also heard that the Americans administration is afraid of such pictures being spread around and anti-war resentiment might rise again. I'm fully aware that many innocent Iraqi civilians are being injured and killed by US bombs, and that's horrific. Honestly, thoughts like this plague me every day... I do not consider myself truly pro- or anti-war, but that does not make me indifferent.
I would advise anyone in here especially young and sensitive members if you go to these sites, are aware you are going to see dead people of both sides.

[berry]neph is correct. i personally have no problems...but you know how things are...sorry, this kind of graphic imagery isn't suited for this site. we can talk about the horrible stuff, but actual pics are out.[/berry]

 

So how come you aren't showing off any pictures of Saddams victims to go along with these? Oh wait - that'd make him seem just as bad if not worse and we couldn't have that now can we?

Edit: I would post them for balance sake but the one time I posted one site, it got edited out by the mods. I suspect this thread will be vaped and locked too, especially since this isn't really a debate; it's more of a biased cry of "Get 'em!"

 

You forgot one possible reason, Neph. If the photos happened to be current, there'd be a perfectly good reason to want to show them - They're still news, and much more indicative of what's going on than photos of years ago.

 

Ah, but she said she has no real bias either way. I feel that if that were true she would also say "Of course, this conduct is hardly new in Iraq. Here are pictures/video of things Saddam has done..." followed by appropriate linkage, and then a comment to the effect of "they seem damned if we do, damned if we don't".

 

War sucks. People die. Get over it.

Saddam was a dictator who was raping his own country. He did it for years. Clinton didn't care. The Bush's do. Before I hear a clamour of "War for Oil" I say this: I don't care what motivation it finally takes for us to get in there, what we did was right, end of story.

God Bless America
God Bless George W. Bush

Oh and Osama, we caught one rat, its only a matter of time before we catch you....

 

Yes, Heaven forbid that Clinton was more concerned with improving things in his own country... And, honestly, I question whether Bush's motives were very moral - I doubt he cares as much for the Iraqis as for getting re-elected. But whatever.

Personally, I don't think it's right to encourage a war that only proves correct the anti-American views of the people in the country we're supposedly helping. I don't think America should be focused on invasive foreign policy when we have so much domestic trouble - with crime, with drugs, with poor education systems, with bigotry and hate. I agree that something needs to be done to help counter the sort of mentality in Iraq that was and is producing violent terrorist groups, and perhaps war was inevitable, but that doesn't mean I have to support this war and the motives of the men behind it. Bush is using the war to distract attention from other key issues that he is NOT solving, such as environmental problems, lack of funding for schools, etc.

Yes, Saddam is a horrible person for what he's done to his own people. But does this automatically make Bush some kind of avenging angel? I think not. I'm not against war. War is a fact of human nature. Death is part of life, as is violence. But I resent seeing a moral front put on a war that was motivated for personal gain, both political and financial.

 

Uhhh, yeah. He commited atrocities prior to the Gulf War, you realise...

*shrugs* His father should have finished it long ago.

 

Saddam killed his own people. Dropped bombs on them, I believe. How sadistic is that? Then a certain terrorist group killed countless Americans on 9/11. There is no person to be pointing fingers at, and Bush is doing what he can.
It's war and people die... Husseine was a major problem but he is removed now. Don't come down on our own soldiers for killing people in Iraq; they'd do the same to us without reason or mercy.
I'm glad you removed those photos, B-Berry. Why should we have to see that?

 

Yeah, I know. I have absolutely no political knowledge whatsoever except for what my completely liberal and anti-war mom raves on about, so I suppose I'm biased. I figured I should delete my post while I was behind to avoid a bunch of "how dare you betray our country!" replies.

 

...If your mom has so influenced your thinking into thinking we are going to en masse attack you with shouts of betrayal... your mom is... a lost cause.

 

it's always so easy for americans to say this as the wars they are talking about are invariably far away from their own families and friends.

and the US put saddam in power in the first place, so don't give us that "he was a brutal dictator" bull, just like with osama bin laden the american goverment spent years and millions arming and training saddam and then ended up having to try to kill him.

who needs medical coverage anyway?

COUNTLESS?

are you ****ing serious?

 

if.. what you did was right. then.. what was it when your goverment ignored the actions of saddam huissen against the kurds.. and whoever else.

was that also.. right?

can america do only right in your eyes?

 

Yes. America can only do right. Since I support the War in Iraq this means that I support every single action my government has ever taken. Every single bill, every single law, every single military strike. 110% Right. Perfection. Absolutly perfect. America has never made a mistake, EVER, how dare you even think such a thing! Perfection!!!

Lord.

 

...

did you even read what you posted?

maybe you could train some islamic fighters, arm then and then send them off to kill him, kind of an ironic ending

 

Yes and since Irleand is right next door to Iraq the Irish have the difinative view on the war there. :anime:

 

eh.. am I the one saying "it's a war, people die. get over it" you arrogant clueless ****?

the german soldiers on trial for ww2 war crimes could certainly have done with you on their defense counsel

"hey judge guy, it's war.. get over it"


if it was americans being killed every day you wouldn't have the same 'who cares' attitude, you'd be foaming at the mouth and screaming in the name of christ for bloody vengeance

 

Its not a who cares attitude. Its a "face the facts" attitude. And Americans ARE being killed everyday man, current count as of April 20 is 709 dead. It makes me sad, yes, these are good men who put their lives on the line for our country and who are dying to free the people of Iraq from Saddam and his grip of evil. But this needs to be done. America has a moral obligation to make the world a better place. We have the power to do so, so we have too.

You can accept this or not, it really doesn't matter. Simple fact is we Americans know what has to be done and don't need the rest of the worlds approval.

 

eh? iraq is free of saddam.. the americans caught him... remember?

american soldiers are dieing, their lives do not rate as highly on the "battlefield" as civilians, people who are having their homes and familes blown up for.. well, like you said.. america knows what it's doing.

you know osama bin laden believes he too has a moral obligation to make the world a better place. he also believes he has the power to do so and he is trying to. are you perhaps seeing a similarity between yourself and this religious zealot?

and if you really care about making the world a better place, put your hypocrisy to bed and fix the problems in your own country before you go around sticking your nose in where it is not appreciated.

hitler also knew what needed to be done.. and he didn't much care for the worlds approval. he went out and he got his way by force.

it's great that there are so many people out there who know what needs to be done, it means the rest of us pitiful pathetic humans can go about our lives not having to worry about anything. It is a blessing.

 

Oh, boo hoo. Look, I support the efforts of those who are suffering in this war, both American and Iraqi - but I'd tired of seeing these statistics tossed around like they really mean something special. Compare that to the numbers of people who die every day in the US from gun crimes and car accidents. Are the deaths in the war somehow more important and grief-worthy than any other death? Not really.

But ARE America's actions making the world a better place, or are they just breeding more hatred? Think of all the bigotry, the descrimation that's come of this war - from anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim sentiment to that bullsh*t about boycotting anything French. For a "moral" war, it certainly hasn't done a lot to counter the basic small-mindedness and spitefulness of the average person.

Besides, while power is responsibility, responsibility doesn't mean going into other countries and bombing them until they conform. Yes, Iraq needs to solve some of it's problems, but so does America. This is NOT a "we're right, they're wrong, absolutely and forever" situation.

A load of crap if I ever saw one. America's tendency to act without making compromises, to proclaim to the world that it stands for all that is Good and Moral, to behave as though it's the global parent who must step in when the other little nations fight over their toys - this is what creates anti-American terrorists in the first place!

America does not know what needs to be done, no more than any other nation or country can claim to. America has one of the highest rates of gun crime in the world, massive problems with the education system, and a myriad of conflicting views and backwards customs within its citizenry. In some ways, America is more advanced than other countries, but in many ways it's still learning too. America is NOT perfect, and personally, I can't stand the sort of mindless patriotism that claims America can do no wrong. Look at the facts, at America's past blunders - previous wars, nukes, racial hatred, poor foreign policy decisions, the list goes on.

Any person who has the nerve the say "I am right, all who disagree with me are wrong; I am good, and all who disagree are evil" - anyone, any country, who can think like that is very, very dangerous. And moreover, very foolish.

All lives should be considered equal. However, there's a difference between soldiers and civilians - soldiers went in knowing the risks and accepting them. So, in that regard, a civilian's death is somewhat more tragic than a soldier's, though both individuals should be valued.

And yes, I wonder how much higher the count is on Iraqi civilian lives lost...

Yep. From the perspective of these terrorists, America is an evil and corrupt overlord seeking to get it's hand in all the pies. Their belief that what they are doing is good doesn't make it right. Same with America.

Thank you. Personally - and I say this as an American - the US is too damned full of itself. We have problems over here that need to be dealt with, like education, the environment, the crime rate, the economy. Sure, Saddam and Bin Laden needed to be dealt with, but that's IT. It's not America's job, or it's right, to go imposing rules and leadership in Iraq (beyond maybe a little assistance with initial peacekeeping), or anywhere else. That only creates more of the resentment and hate that breed terrorism.

No kidding. There's a perfect example of a very misguided, horrific attempt at one man, one nation, deciding that it can do as it likes. Whenever someone gets pumped up on being Right and Moral and Good, and starts demanding things or forcing others into that standard, they're almost always wrong.

And y'know... I'm damn tired of this Good vs. Evil crap in relation to the war. Things are only that simple and clearly defined in cartoons and extreme religious rants. Real life comes with shades of grey.

 

Dude get a clue. You sound like a robot. Anything that you government says you are happy about? If Bush himself came up to your door and told you to walk of a cliff would you gladly jump off one like a lemming? ANd this "can only do right" crap, is full of bull. Understand this: NOBODY IS PERFECT. If Bush can only do right then why the hell are you still in Iraq were your soilders are getting shot and kidnaped. Why doesn't Bush do the right thing for your own people and get them out of there now.