Recreation Philisophical question here

Just wondering your answer on this question that has plagued me for about a week... seemingly out of no-where;

Can god create a boulder he cannot lift?

 

This was a highly debated topic for a while.

One person tossed in the idea that God could restrict his power and hence not move the rock, and restore his power when he needed to. But that would still mean he can move the rock, he simply chooses not to.

As (presumably) God created our universe and all natural laws it operates by, then that means while working within our universe he must abide by the same rules.

These rules include logic. As God must play by this rule, he cannot do anything he wants while still being unable to do something. If he did, well for all I know the universe would implode and a new, Escher-inspired universe would form.

Which would then lead on to meaning that if God creates a rock so heavy he can't lift it, then it ain't budging.

Of course, we don't know the nature of God to begin with. Some say He is The Universe, some say God works outside the universe, some believe that God created the universe and is within it, but not the universe itself, not unlike a kid who builds a fort out of pillows.

Myself, I believe that God cannot make a rock He/She can't move. No matter how heavy He/She makes it, He/She is still going to be able to move it.

Actually on a related note, I was asked this question by a friend. I simply posed the paradox issue, and he said "God will make it so he can't move it, but his magical donkey can."



Of course, he was joking, and never really gave an actual answer.

 

Can a person create a bridge out of stone with his or her own hands? Because surely this person would not be able to lift the bridge. Though, they can still create it.

This question may not deal with God at all, but it may question our ability to do things that will go beyond our control. An example of this would be the AI machines rebelling against us in the Matrix.

It could also be referring to how God created us but we are not following God's will anymore. When you change "a boulder" with humanity and "lift" with "control" you'll see what I mean. Truly I believe that this is flawed, because he gave us free will and allowed us to control our own destinies.

This whole question can be turned back on itself. Can we truly give our opinion about this and be able to back it up with facts and evidence? Or lift it?

The questions go on...

 

They can move said bridge if its modular in design. Additionally, we're limited by our physical capabilities.

Kind of a bad example, a rock isn't going to rebel, nor is it in the Universe of Absolutely Horrible Logic Problems.

No, its asking about how God can supposedly do anything. I'm serious, the full question is "Assume God can do whatever he wants. Can he make a rock he cannot lift?"

Contradicted by Exodus, where God hardens Pharoah's heart. He is, according to that particular passage, influencing the person. Precisely WHY he would do that is beyond me.

The first being: "why did people label God as omnipotent?"

Rob, you're knowledgeable with the Bible, clear this up for me: does God ever claim to be all-power/omnipotent? (Im asking this because I genuinely dont know)


EDIT: by omnipotent or all powerful, Im referring the common interpretation of "able to do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING", not the correct "able to do whatever they want done"

 

Errr, Neph whether you agree with the individual points I made or not the main point I am getting across is that philosophers are known to use metaphors That's what makes them so confusing, for a first year philosophy student anyways..

urrg.. if I really must do research to help us solve this thing, though we may never solve it ^^;This whole thing is enigmatic..

Really, God can do anything He wants to, right? Seeing how he created the Universe there is nothing outside of his boundaries. Err, in other words he is.. the strongest and heaviest thing in the universe..?


As for your question for me to refer you to Bible passages, check out Psalms 104, actually anywhere in The Psalms boasts about God's unending power. I read up part of the Catechism which quotes the Bible on this matter(if you have a Catechism, Neph, check 268-274) Here's the quote.. it'll be long:

"Nothing is impossible with God, who disposes his works according to his will (Jer 29:5; 32:17; Lk 1:37). He is the Lord of the universe, whose order he established and which remains wholly subject to him and at his disposal. He is master of history, governing hearts and events in keeping with his will: "It is always in your power to show great strength, and who can withstand the strength of your arm?" (Wis 11:21; Mt. 6:32)"

In English, the boulder is at His will.. if he wants it to move then it better damn move or it's getting a smiting.

To further the investigation, look at the Apostles Creed, "I believe in God, the Father The Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth."

To define almighty:
"al·might·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ôl-mt)
adj.
Having absolute power; all-powerful: almighty God"

Now to define absolute:
"ab·so·lute ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs-lt, bs-lt)
adj.
Perfect in quality or nature; complete.
Not limited by restrictions or exceptions; unconditional: absolute trust."
-Dictionary.com

 

Sadly, we still never get past the whole paradox issue...

Personally, I think that God created the mechanisms by which our universe operates, and while interacting with our universe, doesn't screw with em.

 

0.o'
...
& to think
...
My answer was
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"Im not religeous, i dont beleive in god, **** off & finish your damn pint"
...
FEAR THE "Outside the box" THINKING APPROACH!!!

 

Well, since God is almighty, there is no way a boulder that He would not be able to lift could exist... Therefore He cannot make it >_<

The paradox remains, if God is almighty and omnipotent then He can create anything even if it is heavier than Him. Which I'm sure you already all know..

By, "doesn't screw with them" do you mean that he doesn't because he can't? Because then this is contradicted to the belief* that God is almighty and can do anything.


*By belief I mean that this thread asks about God, therefore the topic is a religious one. If you don't believe in God still try to solve this with us.. we could use the help ^_^ You might even try switching God with "an almighty being"

 

I don't know if God either can't break his rules or won't break his rules.

 

Well seeing as i did start it i might as well push aside my "Outside the box" thinking ways & replace it with anouther answer;

Accepting the fact that we think in liniar fashion (I.e we only think in one straight way) there fore one answer is our goal, if god is omnipotent then it would be sumwhat impossible for him/her/it to think in such a fashion & still be all mighty, so as god thinks in a possible million other ways & his/her/it's thoughts make up our existence, theoretically god can & can't do it at the same time.

So in summary, god can & cant make a boulder that he cant lift for time, place & concept are pretty much his/her/it's creation.

I think i need to be drunk to make this make more sense :S

(Note to self; keep away from forums when under the influence)

 

That's a pretty trippy question. Simply, if God exists and could create boulders of any size/material, sure he could create a boulder that's MEANT to be unliftable. Then again, I don't think God is almighty, omnipotent, or all-powerful. He has limitations too, not just cuz of the consequences of certain actions (like if he broke down a mountain, the debris from it might spill onto cities) but also cuz there are lots of things he simply can't do. That's my take, since I perceive God almost in the way of a deist, believing that God doesn't play much of a part in our lives, whether cuz he's too weak to do anything (like indirectly moving boulders) or cuz he isn't really a great entity but just a mental concept.

 

I think the rock signifies something else. Of course GOD could move the rock if he was almighty. But if the rock signified a human and their decision then he couldn't move the rock so to speak. God cannot decide stuff for us. But maybe god is actually telling us what to do by our thoughts. He is suggesting stuff to us as he plans our action. Unfortunately we think that we are doing it and not god. Maybe? You never know. That is why I believe in god to a certain point.

 

I'm leaning more towards this answer.. God is almighty as well as omnipotent according to sources about God, since this is about God and not just our own personal opinions. So God's omnipotence would tell Him whether he should do things or not, and in this instance he most likely doesn't need to make the rock.. it could be saying that he won't do things that he doesn't need to do according to his master plan for the Universe. Therefore, he wouldn't need to make a boulder that he couldn't lift because it isn't in the better interest of his Universe.



edit: Okay, maybe that was a bit harsh (gomen nasai) I'm just saying that if you do change the wording a bit(it is about God and you may not agree but you could still think about the question at hand, right?) then we'd be able to solve it faster...

 

Actually this is about a random question i was asked in the pub & i was wondering what peoples answers would be... but go on, argue & it will (Probably) be moved to the debate section (If they can be bothered)

 

God can do anything he wants and if he couldn't then just as Neph said the universe would implode.

God is uber strong; he could lift the boulder:dizzy2: