Saber Marionette Question: what is necessary to awaken a marionette?

I am currently working on my first SMJ-related fanfic, which is going to be a crossover between Saber Marionette J and Bubblegum Crisis realities. In this fanfic Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry will be separated from Otaru, and their Maiden Circuits will deactivate themselves, but then they will be awakened by another… person.

However, I have a question: what is necessary to awaken a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit?

It was mentioned, that a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit cannot exist without man’s love; however, I wonder, if a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit must necessary be awaken by the person capable of falling in love with her at the first sight (like Otaru), or if a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit could be awakened by the person potentially capable of falling in love with her (like Faust)?

I also wonder, if there will be a human-like male machine with personality, emotions, memories, free will, and without any need for master, will this human-like male machine be able to awaken a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit and to become her master? Or only human will be able to awaken a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit and to become her master?

And finally, is it possible for someone to fake affection for a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit, thus awakening this marionette and becoming her master? Of course, assuming that this someone knows or at least suspects that this is what is required for awakening a marionette equipped with a Maiden Circuit and thus becoming her master.

What are your opinions about this matter, people?

P.S.

I am not sure if the fanfic, which I was talking about will ever see the light or not, as I have already faced certain difficulties while working on it. But nevertheless, I am currently putting some time and efforts into working on this fanfic.

 

I'm sure Mattsu-san will be able to answer you better than I can, but here are my (meager attempts at!) answers, just because I can. ^^;

What is necessary probably depends on what the maiden circuits were created for, what the creator intended to happen. I think that to actually awaken not much is needed other than actually waking them up, as in, activating them (or, less poetically (XD), pressing the "on" button). There was much more emphasis on what was needed for the maiden circuits to mature than to awaken.

As for a human-looking male android -- there would be the problem of what gives them this free will. In SMJ, only Cherry, Lime, Bloodberry, Luchs, Tiger, and Panther (and probably Marine, except... I haven't seen the OVA, so I can't say) have free wills -- any other marionette was just that, a puppet. It was forced to do what its master asked of it. It didn't feel. Even in Bubblegum Crisis, the Boomers didn't exactly feel per se. They just sort of malfunctioned or short circuited or whatever (I am bad with tech stuffs, so please forgive), and the only reason I see is because they were being told that they were doing wrong, or they were laughed at, even though they were doing what they'd been programmed or ordered to do. So whichever way you look at it, there would be no sentient marionette or android unless they had a maiden circuit, and those were the six Japoness and Gartlant saber marionettes.

...and that's the way Gata (me!) sees it. ^^; The awakening was never really the major concern. It was what happened afterward. It was their growth. ...unless some other, more Saber Marionette-wise individual says otherwise and proves me wrong, which wouldn't be unlikely... ^_^; I hope that helps, though! ^_^

 

To Stardust Phox:

Thank you very much for your help, Stardust Phox!

However, I am sorry to say so, but I must disagree with you about Boomers, Stardust Phox. In Bubblegum Crisis, every Boomer seem to be capable of developing a personality of its own, even though in most cases such personalities are very limited. In the very first episode of Bubblegum Crisis MegaTokyo 2032 OVA series, we can see Boomers BU-55C (who are rather stupid, as they are designed only for combat), enjoy talking and joking (even though their jokes are rather stupid as well). BU-33S are so undistinguishable from human beings, that there is no real way of telling that this is Boomer, not a human being; only a very thorough medical examination is able to reveal them to be Boomers, not human beings. They have both intelligent no less then that of an average human, and they are fully capable of human emotions, including caring, seeking revenge and even sacrificing themselves. And there are others, even more advanced Boomers… Also, every Boomer seem to have potential to break out of control, to go 'rogue', as they call it. And even those Boomers who are fully under their owners' control tend to show emotions; but some of the Boomers who break out of their owners' control are absolutely (at least outwardly) undistinguishable from human beings. As one such Boomer said, "Cyberdroids were made to be humans' slaves, but they can become an intelligent race." So, I am sorry to say, that I completely disagree with you in regard of Boomers, Stardust Phox. However, Stardust Phox, your comments about marionettes were very helpful, and I thank you for them very much!

 

To BakaMattSu:

Thank you very much for your even more helpful comments, Baka!

I am still thinking about how and by whom Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry could be reawakened, but you have provided me with much needed help and support, and I thank you for that very much for that!

How Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry would behave without their beloved Otaru around is indeed both interesting and difficult to think of and write down. Even with a potential new master, Otaru will remain their first and most likely only love, and knowing that he is very far away or probably even dead (as I believe that Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry don't have any way of telling how much time they spent in deactivated state) would cause them great torment and would probably even drive one or even all of them to the point of insanity. I have a feeling, that the later is especially likely in case of Cherry, because IMHO Cherry is the most emotional of marionettes; also because Lime's lively spirit and Bloodberry's strong will somewhat protect them from the stress. But it would be hard for me to say how exactly Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry would behave until I will get to writing this point of the fanfic.

I think, that I will most likely stick with the idea that "anyone releasing a marionette would do", thank you once again, Baka! I am currently thinking over a few different ideas about the storyline, one where Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry will all eventually be 'acquired' by one person, and one where they will be found by different people; but I will most likely stick with the first idea, as I can already think of a storyline based upon Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry eventually be 'acquired' by a certain person, which will lead to a very interesting rivalry to explore.

I know that this is the benefit of fanfiction, but I would like to know other people's opinion first. After all, I know very little about SMJ reality, as I have seen only SMJ and SMJ Again, and only recently at tha, while there are a lot of people who know MUCH more about SMJ reality then I do (i.e. people like you, Baka). That's why I am so thankful to you for sharing your opinion with me!

Personally, I find it quite possible to assume that Ieyasu and Faust were either unwilling or unable to create a fully free-willed machine, and absolute free-will is very likely to be necessary for somebody to become a marionette's master. Remember, Lime refused to become Marine's master because she had a master of her own. IMHO, even marionettes equipped with Maiden Circuits aren't fully free-willed, for while they have emotions and somewhat limited free-will, they still live to serve their master.

Personally, I find it very likely that both Ieyasu and Faust were simply afraid to create a fully free-willed machine, after what has happened with Mesopotamia. And so, they decided that it would be much safer for their marionettes to be raised by human, not by free-willed machine.

What do you think about this possibility, Baka?

By the way, speaking of Mesopotamia, thank you very much, Baka, for providing an excellent explanation about why exactly Mesopotamia let Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry go in the end of SMJ. If you don't mind, I intend to you almost same reasons for Mesopotamia to let Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry go in my own fanfic, although in my own fanfic Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry will find their release to be not exactly what they have expected it to be.

Once again, thank you very much for your help and support, Baka, for it truly means very much to me!

I will certainly do my best to ensure the fanfic, which I was talking about, will see the light; for it explores IMHO very interesting possibilities. So far, my working on it goes very slow, because I have a lot of others things to do (including studying, DMing the Online Campaign of mine, and working on another fanfic of mine), and because I have intention to make somewhat good and detailed characters' descriptions, so that those readers who have seen only one series (i.e. either Saber Marionette J or Bubblegum Crisis MegaTokyo 2032-2033) could understand what everybody look like and what is going on.

I would like to thank you very much for your help and support one more time, Baka!

 

To BakaMattSu:

It’s same for me, Baka. While I have seen Saber Marionette J only recently, it quickly and easily became my favorite anime.

Good luck to you then, Baka, for even though I have been only speculating, not writing about how Lime, Cherry and Bloodberry would behave with their beloved Otaru gone, I have a feeling that writing about it is going to be very difficult indeed.

True, I have seen Lime’s spirit crushed before, but from what I have seen, Lime’s spirit always seems to be able to recover as easily as it is crushed. Of course, in the series Lime always had the reason to live on – Otaru; and so, I guess, that we cannot really be sure about how well Lime will be able to recover from something like Otaru’s death.

As about Bloodberry, while there definitely is some gentleness and sensitivity under her display of strength and iron will; IMHO, Bloodberry is the most strong-willed of Otaru’s marionettes, perhaps even of all the seven marionette equipped with Maiden Circuits, whom I have seen. And so, I have the feeling that Bloodberry would be affected by something like Otaru’s death much lesser then Lime and Cherry would.

At some parts Saber Marionette J to X, which I have finally acquired and saw the other day, Bloodberry indeed appears to be more sensitive then in SMJ and SMJ Again; this is best seen in the last part of the series, when Bloodberry has lost her memories and her personality seemed to change dramatically (or perhaps it was the personality that she was hiding behind her display of strength and iron will all along, who knows?).

Heh, isn’t hairspray is what makes man a man? Um, I mean, aren’t repeated watchings, discussions and self-contemplation are what make guru a guru?

I must admit, that I made a serious mistake here. I took me reviewing SMJ and SMJ Again one more time to fully realize how wrong I was. While at first even Maiden Circuit Marionettes appeared to have somewhat limited freedom of will (by somewhat limited freedom of will I meant somewhat limited ability to make decisions), but as the series progress, we indeed can see every Maiden Circuit Marionette (except for Marine, but she is the special case because of her ‘master’) either disobey her master’s orders or even stand up to him. And so, I am now beginning to wonder, if there is indeed any real limit of Maiden Circuit Marionettes’ freedom of will or not.

However, on the other hand, their unconditional love (as you rightly put it), indeed makes them appear somewhat limited in their decisions. And while in the normal turn of events I wouldn’t even consider such love as a limit of one’s freedom of will, I have a strong feeling that in case of Lime, Cherry, Bloodberry, Tiger, Luchs and Panther, they were kind of programmed to fall in love with their master, which was probably necessary to make their Maiden Circuits grow. And so, I am not exactly sure whether Lime, Cherry, Bloodberry, Tiger, Luchs and Panther are truly free-willed or whether their freedom of will is still somewhat limited.

What do you think about it, Baka?

Well, IMHO, your Saber Marionette J vs. M story was perfect (or at least almost perfect) already, but if you feel like revising it, it’s your decision, and I wish you luck in perfecting it further.

I never discount other people’s opinions, even when I am not fully agree with them, because different views on the subject are indeed what helps you to create or perfect your own point of view.

That’s why it saddens me greatly that not many people seem to post in Saber Marionette forum. Well, I guess, that this is understandable, since Saber Marionette are somewhat old series, and so, I guess, that they are very difficult to get (at least it is so in my home country), that’s why there aren’t a lot of fans of Saber Marionette.

Anyway, whenever I will questions about Saber Marionettes, you can count on me asking them!

 

Speaking of the questions, I have another question, which is also related to the subject of awakening the Maiden Circuit Marionettes.

Even if being able to fall in love with a Maiden Circuit Marionette isn’t really necessary to physically awaken her, in some cases a Maiden Circuit Marionette seem to be able to feel the presence of a suitable master for her. In the very first SMJ episode, Lime seemed to be able to feel Otaru’s presence even before she awoke physically; and it appeared that it was Lime, who sub-consciously opened a way in the secret chamber beneath Japoness Pioneer Museum for Otaru. Likewise, in the third SMJ episode Cherry also seemed to be able to feel Otaru’s presence even before she awoke physically; and it appeared that it was Cherry, who sub-consciously (or possibly quite consciously) activated the secret elevator, which took Otaru and Lime to Shogun Ieyasu’s chamber, saving them from Baiko and Tamasaburo.

However, I have a question: if a Maiden Circuit Marionette will feel presence of a suitable master for her, but then she will be physically awakened by another person, will she be able to determine that the person who awakened her isn’t the one whose presence she felt or not?

I understand, that nobody can be 100% sure about this matter, but I would like to hear your opinions, people.