Rurouni or Battosai?

Battousai during the Bakumatsu had a lot of power, Kenshin just after learning the seccession technique, the Amakakeru ryu no hirameki, as just same pwer as the Battousai did in the Bakumatsu. So in that, Battousai is the split personality of Kenshin.

 

Well, I have now seen the Tsuiokuhen OVA (I actually saw it awhile ago..,), I feel I am better prepared to discuss the Battousai. I have also become enlightened...Tsuiokuhen was probably the best movie I have ever seen... I could go on for a multi-paragraph essay on it, but that's not the topic under discussion.

Alright, now, although there is the barrier of the differing styles between the OVA's and the series, which makes commenting more difficult. Tsuiokuhen was incredibly realistic, with most actions physically possible. The series, on the other hand, didn't focus very hard on realism...tornadoes of flame is getting a little out of hand... If I had seen Seisouhen, I could use that, but I haven't (although I'd like to and intend on it).

Well, onto the topic. When comparing the fighting styles of Battousai during Bakumatsu and Kenshin during Meiji, the major difference I found was that Battousai was more of a machine (I believe Chou makes a similar comment right before he's hit with a heavy battoujutsu, at least in the dubbed version)...as opposed to Kenshin who is quite different from this. Kenshin uses specialized attacks, and expresses them quite openly via yelling. I don't think Kenshin has ever defeated a skilled opponent (Hiruma Gohei not included) with anything other than a special technique. Battousai doesn't use these techniques, or at least he combines them into devastating attacks that are swift and flexible. Enemies are defeated much quicker when they lose (die in this case) with the first strike, especially when it's not a specific technique, which shows that the kenshi is more skilled by not needing them. Socially too, Kenshin spends a significant portion of battles talking, which as opposed to Battousai who finishes all fights quickly and efficiently. For most attacks in the OVA, I need to go through the entire battle frame-by-frame in order to see what attacks are actually being preformed.

Of course, much of this is speculation, as I have very little knowlage on kenjutsu or kendo (although I'm actually beginning kendo classes by the end of this month, I finally found a dojo in my area), nor am I a physiologist, physicist, or athlete, so I don't really know how these things work.

 

Oh, really? I didn't know that, .

 

I think it takes a lot more skill to stop yourself from killing than to kill.

 

It can be said that neither takes more expertise. For instance it takes a proficient amount of craft to extirpate efficiently, as it takes a proficient amount of craft to harness the human emotions that go into play as well. And in the same way it can be said in regards to not killing it can take alot of craft to hold down the inner human tendencys of revenge, lust, ambition, jealousy, power, recognition, etc and as well as that it can take alot of craft to hit with such utter precision and hindrance as to deliver the lethal amount of motion for an afflicting but not a mortiferous attack. In the end it matters from which perspective you endorse it from, from the negative or the postive, but no matter what perspective the ability in both is equal.

 

after practicing the japanese sword arts for nearly 6 years i can tell you that its not as hard to kill as it is to stop...when you attack something in your human emotions makes you lust for blood..so in training you spend lots of time learning how to suppress these emotions...in doing so your able to know when to stop...its an interesting feeling when your sparing cause even tho you cant kill them you almost get filled with a rage...and ive seen it in martial artist of all the martial artists...they dont really know when to stop while there still novices...you really have to learn and train yourself to control your emotions and bury your concience somtimes...

eitherway after seeing Battousai and Kenshin at work i have to say that although Battousai is a machine and very efficient at it Kenshin is far more powerful. because he has to limit himself he has a control that i dont think Battousai had...to kill you must only attack...it almost becomes a zen state of mind after killing enough...where its almost instinct...so as Kenshin he must not let this "zen or instinct" take over...

 

Battousai vs Kenshin
Battousai is more likely to win the battle but it takes skill to not kill someone anyone can cause death but takes great care not to kill your opponit

 

Yes, I do agree that it takes more control to stop oneself from killing. However, when it was stated that after killing as Battousai did, then it basically becomes a zen state of mind. But, if we're trying to see who would win a battle, a zen state of mind would make the kenshi with the aforementioned mindset would have an extreme advantage if skills were equal. I'm fairly sure that instincts act much quicker than intelligence, which would give Battousai an advantage when fighting. Although comparing it to a zen state of mind may not be the best example...I'm pretty sure Buddhist monks aspire to reach that state...

 

the point is that one should not let instincts take over your control until you've learned what it takes to control that instinctive part of you...

 

Aiiiya, Gen-san! You're back! *hugs, sniff* (Dejavu... haven't I seen this topic a billion times?)

Not all people are like that- for me, it's the other way around. It's harder to kill than to stop. I think it depends on the person's mental build. My biggest weakness is softness. I'm not pathetic, but still, whenever instinct takes over me, know matter how angry I am, that care I have inside always comes and yanks me back. I've spent so much time trying to kill that softness, and bring some cruelty into my practice, (because I believe strongly that revenge and hate are powerful assets when used correctly), and it's a lot harder than learning to restrain yourself, because I've had to do that, too.

 

Konbanwa Doa-chan! *hugs back*

your "zen" or instincts is very powerful and you have to train hard to overcome this or you will ever advance in your studies...

 

It is neither that is the true answer. In essence without prior effects both to hurt and to help are in equability. If ethier is affected by interference, it will inherently have a effect on the corresponding behavior. It is that interference which serves as the fulcrum to diverge and obscure the equability in both.

 

honestly i think that they both are equal in strength but one chooses to control his strength...

 

i dunno bout this but i belive that they both are at an equal position because when a wanderor he has more skill in his sword not to kill but to protect and if he wanted to he coud kill without going to the manslayer. the manslayer has then same skill to not kill but choses to kill, when kenshin broke his swod and had to use the sword that he got from the son of the one who made the first sword he did not know that it was a revers blade and the manslyer came out. then when he found that the sword was reverse blade then he found tha he was morely able to controle the manslayer and jained more confidense in himselmf.

 

To put it simply:
You don't realize how much the loss of a life is, until you lose one yourself. I believe Tomoe's death personified each of those people Kenni slew, and he realized how many people's loved ones he had slaughtered.

 

well his death did more than that it put kenshin into a more dpressed self consious so that he will never kill not matter who he figths and learned that he must try and control his manslayer inside

 

Yes! I think that's the best way to phrase it. Because one of them decides to control the strength, he appears weaker even if he isn't (this may not be interpreted how I meant it to be, I don't think know how to phrase it well...). For if the strength is let loose full power...bad things happen to his targets...bad...

 

yea well if kenshins suppresses the manslayer it seems as if he gains streangth for that he concetrates on the fight/ moves he needs to use to beat the other person but not to kill him .. now if the manslayer controles the streangth kensihn looks stronger on the outside but inside he is weaker because he could not control the manslyer when it was in side.

 

well lets put it this way "you will be a hitokiri until death" and he will, he will alwasy have that strength its whether he uses it or not.

 

yea he will be the salyer all the time but he still has to control it even when he has no choice but to let it out