Rurouni or Battosai?

Afterall, killing someone is alot easier than hurting someone. I think as the rurouni he needed a lot more control than as the hitokiri.

 

its so much easier to let your sword think inplace of your mind...an assassin's edge is sharp but the edge of one who refuses to kill is even sharper...

 

Nice point there hitokiri. you seem to think like a samuri

 

I'm beginning to be persuaded toward the argument for Kenshin, about how not killing is more difficult than killing, but I don't believe that was the general samurai mentality. Samurai, in general, really didn't have to many qualms with killing; they would commonly slice down anyone below their caste (and samurai formed basically the highest caste) that had offended them. Not to mention that seppuku entailed killing, albeit themselves, and this form of suicide was pretty common, at least during Sengoku Jidai. ShÅgun by James Clavell details the first point pretty well near the begining of the novel, and the second at some points (I don't remember many times, except when one daimyo committed seppuku near the end).

So I would have to disagree with anyone who says that Kenshin acts like samurai (especially since he isn't one, he was born a farmer), with the largest difference being that he's pretty humble and feels no need to avenge his honor. Now, I really hope what I've said here or part of my paper on the classes of Japan from 1534 to 1868 had some incorrect parts when I talked about the samurai... And I'm rambling and not wording what I'm trying to say correctly, so I'll stop typing now.

P.S. If anyone whose read ShÅgun is curious, the protagonist's name in reality was William Adams. Just thought I'd add that for no good reason.

 

well it was a samurai's duty was to protect his lord, his country, and its ruler that being the shogun of the time. if that meant killing so be it, but not all samurai were killers although im sure you could find one who was a malicious killer with no thought to his victim. also the only way to restore ones honor was to commit seppuku.

As for Kenshin, he acts with honor and courage but he lacks the samurai status. at this point any one could carry a sword or Daisho and wear their hair "chonmage" so regardless of ones birth status they could act as a samurai. Also if you read the manga, Hiko explains that the reason Kenshin was attacked was because the governments system for protection on the roads had broken down. so many ronin as well as dissident samurai were wondering the country looking for easy prey...

 

Well...I don't think Kenshin could become a samurai anytime he wanted to... It was possible to change one's class during Sengoku Jidai, if I remember correctly, but Tokugawa Ieyasu changed it so that the caste system was absolute when he came into power. But, yes, I probably didn't phrase all I meant correctly and pretty much everything else you said's right...

 

well that was Sengoku Jidai, this is the bakumatsu...1865 so its been something like 150-200 years, but eitherway at this point you couldnt be a samurai unless born to that status but you could wear a daisho and have your hair in chonmage so...you could act like a samurai, but as of 1877 january 1st, a ban was put on swords restricting it to the military and the kenkakukeikantai.

 

Didn't Kenshin about know that ban though? That is what I'm wondering, I know I need help.

 

he knew about the ban but he ignored it...besides its not like he was a killer...the kenkakukeikantai laughed at him when they chalenged him the first time without Ujiki. they said that he should either obey the ban or draw his sword and Kenshin replied that he had children with him and that it was nothing but a sakabatou and they laughed at him for it...telling him to get a real sword...anyway so yes he knew about the ban.

Actually, this was the time that many katana's were put in a shaft of curved bamboo to conceal it as a walking stick. many cane swords arose in this period because of disgruntled samurai not liking the fact that they could no longer carry their swords. to a samurai the sword is one of his most precious possesions. stored on a rack in a central place in his house they were revered. especially in the Shinto religion where the katana was one of the most important symbols. To a samurai they were his honor and dignity as well as a symbol of a more prominent birth. so by losing the right to carry a daisho they lost the honor and dignity.

and just cause im bored heres an outline i wrote about the development of the samurai sword:

The first sword were imported to japan. they were made of steel and had chinese workmanship and chinese koshirae*. the first sword of purely japanese design came in 646 AD. they were still called Kara Tachi** they came in two ways. the first having black laquered fittings for actual combat and decorative for ceremonies. Rayskin was used to wrap the handles from time to time but was only used for all swords during the Heian Era (794-1185) most swords of this period were called Kazari Tachi*** or Hoso Tachi**** the sword style was already adjusting to Japanese tastes and styles. as time passed they became simpler and became known as Efu Tachi, and were used by imperial gaurds during the Edo period.
* sword fittings...and old word a more modern word "toso" is used which means sword furniture
** Chinese Tachi
*** Decorative Tachi
**** Narrow Tachi

later came the Uchigatana which had is predecessors in the Heian Era. this sword was worn edge up thrust through the obi. it looked alot like the previous tachi although it had no Obitori so was called Handachi or half tachi, this particular style never went our of style for the next 300 years.

The Momoyama Era saw flashy Koshirae ususally with a red laquered saya *scabard* and kanagu in gold. however this was in response to the Tensho Era's sombre mountings of black laquered saya and and same *rayskin*.

Finally in the Edo Period Tokugawa Ieyasu moved the capital to Edo. many swordsmiths moved their shops there as well. in this period the wearing of a wakizashi and katana became the standard swords for a samurai.
a samurai had to wear duty attaire while on duty this consisted of kataginu *winged shoulders* and hakama *split skirt trousers*. while the court members wore Hitatare court attire with and Eboshi hat and a wakizashi at their hip. however these swords were quite impractical in that they had no mekugi to fasten the tsuka to the tang so therefore it couldnt be used as a weapon this was perhaps to show because of their high position they had no need to use it. also it was a serious offense to draw a sword in front of the Shogun or at any court.
commoners werent allowed to carry swords of any length although rich merchants often sported fancy tantos to show off their wealth.
then on July 18 Shoho 2 (1645) the ban of swords were lightened. a commoner could wear a sword under 1.8 shaku if one obtained a permit to do so. this enabled travellers on the Tokaido road to arm themselves against bandits and it also allowed the chief of Police to are the Okappiki, the non-samurai police.
then in the year 1871 the ban was totally lifted any one of any class could wear a sword of any length or wear their hair Chonmage or Samurai Topknot. Kirisute Gomen was also prohibited. this was the unpunished slaying of non-samurai for an real or imagined insult. then on January 1, 1877 the decree that only the military and police were allowed to carry swords was put out. it was during this period that many samurai took their beloved blades and stuck them in a walking stick inorder to carry their swords with them.
after this most swords were designed after french and german military sabers. only swords from world war 2 would see the renaissense of japanese design.

 

I'd have to agreee. Being able to bring oneself to killing someone in battle does have certain strengths, in that it does not limit one's clarity of mind. If a simple stroke of a sword is enough to end ones problems, what trouble can you have? However, I cannot help but believe that after a certain amount of time, following such ways, can bring its own kind of cloudiness to one's mind.
I believe that Kenshin was fortunate to bring himself to realize this. He changed his ways, and found a different form of strength, within his mind, and heart, even with his new friends.

 

well again i state...its not that he couldnt control himself...it was that he really wished not to kill in the first place...perhaps the stench of blood was driving him insane...if he had lost his senses then his sword would have been so dull that he would not be able to continue his path as hitokiri...

 

It would be rurouni cause he has more wisdom than the battosia :shy:

 

perhaps he has more wisdom but perhaps not. remember although Kenshin has been wandering for 10 years i think that may have put him perhaps a bit behind in the worldly happenings...even a month in the mountains, during which violent change can happen among the government. and since he carries a katana he avoided human contact thanks to the sword ban put in place 1877, January 1st.

 

I know that Rurouni has more wisdow than what the Battousai has, the Rurouni is also more pleasant to be with than the Battousai.

 

Yes I know, the battosia had barley any wisdom compared to the rurouni. :bleed2:

 

you give him very little credit...he is a very bright man. his abilities prove this. Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu is based on ones speed as well as ones ability to read ones opponents moves before they make them. therefore it becomes most effective after seeing and fighting many different schools. so to remember all this things as well as his own principles, prove that he is quite an intelligent man.

 

I am just saying that Rurouni has a lot more knoladge now then when hes was the battosia, the rurouni still has the same abilities as the battosia

 

Sure, you're right, the rurouni has more knowledge now because of the wandering he did for 10 years than what the battousai had 10 years before he became rurouni, yes, the rurouni still has the same abilities as the battousai because they are the same man in one body. :catgirl: :sweat:

 

The origanal Question was who is strong Rurouni or Battosia?
I know they are the same man :anger2:

 

I think the Battousai is stronger, but the Rurouni is wiser. :shy3: