Saber Marionette SMJ Doujinshi

Yes, I made the "Gosh"-doujinshi, but I didn't want to degrade any of the characters. I just wanted to make a little bit fun. I respect the characters, because I love the series. It's my most favourite anime!
I did not want to harm anybody with that one... ^^;
And my doujinshi is quite old by now... a few years old. I hope you will forgive me for drawing such thing.

 

I love hearing someone say that!

Your artwork is really good, though. I don't care to see SMJ hentai, that's all. I took your doujinshi to be borderline hentai, and, for that reason, and that reason alone, I didn't really like it.

As I said, your artwork is awesome!

 

Thank you.
I'm not just drawing ecchi pics or doujinshi, so I've got a lot of "normal" pictures of the marionettes (I've only not updating my homepage any more ^^).
And I'm really a big fan. I've got the hole series on DVD (Saber Marionette J, Saber Marionette J Again and Saber Marionette J to X [all in DVD-Box from Bandai in USA] and Saber Marionette R [from OVA Films in germany]), the Tsukasa Kotobuki-Artbook, a few smaller Artbooks, the 5 mangas an a lot of merchandise. I've spend a lot of money to SMJ, I think... XD

 

I don't mean to go off-topic, but:

http://www.boards.jp/forums/showpost.php?p=191653&postcount=1

There's a (slightly outdated) list of what I've got.

 

I just wanted to show that I'm really a SMJ-Fan. ^^
I've spend a lot of money to that anime and I love it! I did not wanted to degrade any characters. I'm a fan! ^^;

 

Holy man you guys are oddish...

Wow, why would anyone bring this topic up unless they were actually looking to score some?

Yes, Tis I, the not-so-great-wert posting with a vengence once more. Ah the beauties of the internet.

Anyway, for god's sakes Doujin is pr0n and is rather a touchy subject to bring up on an open board like this, even in this type of discussion.

"Think of the children man!"

Art is one thing, Fan art is another thing, Doujin (however) is in an entirely different ball park. Lady Aoi always had a little different taste (especially with Hana-chan). You could see that clear as day with her site (rather informative I might add) and her previous posts.

Still, I must agree with the Shin-mastah. It is rather disheartening to degrade them in such manner.

As for Luv's comment I gotta say "wth?". Storylines and pr0n goes together like Oil and Water. They are two different things that really don't go together very well.

Meh... That's enough of this topic.

 

*feebly raises hand* It's true that I have yet to familiarize myself with the politics of the BJP forums, so I hope I don't get stoned or anything, but...

I don't see how bringing it up-- indeed, even locating some-- is that touchy, given how ecchi both the series and the manga are anyhow. I realize it's a little different in this case, what with this board being part of a wide collection (I'm really used to private forums), but it makes sense to me that content on the boards just shouldn't exceed what goes on in the series that the board is for. Because why would you be here otherwise? Presumably, anyone who can handle what SMJ (and ohh man, SMR!) has to offer could handle the same from the board. I'm not saying there's any specific example right here, right now... it's just a general statement. A proposition of sorts.

*whisper* Also bear in mind that "doujinshi" is not neccessarily synonymous with hentai. It's just not. :3

If you're thinking of the standard fare of hentai, then sure. But I don't particularly see how their inclusion in some sort of tasteful lemon or something is degrading... If the characters themselves have displayed that side of themselves in the past (just about all the main cast of SMJ does at one point or another, except for Lime... which is perhaps why I wouldn't want to see her in any kind of adult situation, myself), why should we pretend it doesn't exist?

Ohhh, not so, kind sir! ^_^ I've seen some storylines that have pr0n that go together beautifully, and are either valuable or completely relevant to the plot. Of course, you see this a lot more in fanfiction and original manga than in, say, doujinshi. But rest assured, it does exist.

Oh, on the contrary. I'm rather enjoying it.

 

Maybe if it didnt go overboard I may look. But I rather be able to read it and know whats going on. I would go for the "true" romance and not just horny ones.

 

Sorry, bud, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here.

To discuss what they've already collected? Their opinions of it?

'Bout darn time! You're needed around here! (Sort of...)

Not so. Doujinshi is not about sex. Or porn. As the others have said, it's scarcely "all" porn. Yes, some of it is, and some of it can be pretty bad, but certainly, not all of it is what you think it is.

Doujin is not about hentai. It is about love. It's about a fan's love for the characters, it is made because somebody cared enough about a series to want to be a part of it, to have a little piece of the series they could call their own. And not all of it is hentai.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Doujin is in the same category as fan art, simply a different style. Think about it this way. When you were a kid, you probably liked Archie comics, right? Well, let's say you liked them so much, that you wanted to put the characters in your own story. So you write one. That, right there, is fan fiction. Let's say, you like them so much, you want to draw them. Fan art. Now, combine the two. You draw the Archies in your own comic, with it's own story. That, is doujinshi.

You're agreeing with a statement I wasn't entirely clear on. I have seen a number of pictures that I believed to be quite degrading, yes, and I won't go into that any further here. But, I'd have to agree with Xel, on this.

Also untrue. :blush: There have been a number of lemon fanfictions I have read :blush: that were very well written, with beautiful storylines, and a very natural feeling to them. Just because the great majority of hentai is story-free, doesn't mean all of it is.

I hope this doesn't mean you'll abandon this topic without reading any of the responses to it.

 

It's kinda like shooting yourself in the foot...

Hi ho to all from the other side of the world, floating around in the oil stained waters of the Persian Gulf- our new home for a little while anyways. Nothin' like writing home from in the middle of a combat zone. Actually, nothing is going on. All quiet on the western front, ya?

Anyway...

Psssshhh, Since when have I ever ducked out of a good convo? It may take me awhile now that I'm underway, but Right or wrong I love arguing.

Jeebus, I really lit a fire with that one, didn't I? I guess I've got to defend myself now. It's cool, I think it's badass to see an entire fandom come together like that about anything.

SO! Sitting here, listening to Queen's "Fat Bottomed Girl" I shall try to gracefully back of what I wrote before (probably in a drunken stupor) and try to recover with something a little more edu-mi-cated sounding, ya?

You are right, of course, however go to Google and type in doujinshi or simply doujin and see what you pull up. It's definately synonimous with pr0n for a reason. Type in Anime and you'll get a little more varied response.

However I must argue that we should use the term in the same context as it was presented to us, namely the form Lady Aoi brought up.

Y'see I was referring to the doujin in that form. I understand that like just about everything else the common concept we know is a perversion by society of it's original, intended purpose.

I was referring to amercianized pr0n. Serious, do ANY of them have a coherent storyline? But that's beside the point and way beyond the scope of this discussion.

I'f the creator intended them to go 'all the way' then I feel that he or she would have included that in the feature. I honestly believe that what goes on in the bedroom should probably stay there, and with regards to characters in animate features you learn to love and enjoy, to present them in such a manner is rather... dishonest to their intended nature. I dont want to bash on anyone's ideals or how they feel about such situations, however I feel that presenting such characters (namely ones who thrive on thier innocence and purity) is rather betraying. That said I hope no one bothers to re-read my first SMJ fanfic. ^^; It's strange how people change (Mature) over the course of a few years.

But, of course, that's just me, and of course, I'm referring to the more mature form of Doujinshi.

D'oh! Time ran out on me!!

Until next time friends.

~The wert heard 'round the world

 

Oh, pish-tosh. It's the most honest take on their nature yet. As I said, this is something we have seen to exist in most characters in the series. Simply because we don't see it in an overwhelmingly blatant form doesn't mean it's not there.

The problem with what goes on in the bedroom staying there in this instance, though, is that nothing DOES go on in there unless it's through us, the fans. There is no level of modesty to consider with regard to the characters here. It is or it isn't.

I agree with you on this:

Otaru, Hanagata, Cherry, Bloodberry, Faust, the Saber Dolls... all have sexual desire. We have seen this in some degree or another over the course of the entire series. Lime does not. That said, I would not feel right putting her in that kind of situation. But that's not because I believe it corrupts her in the slightest-- in fact, I wholly reject the notion that sex is dirty or degrading or otherwise bad in and of itself as preposterous. I would urinate on the prospect if I could. It's because it's simply not compatible with her character. It's OOC. Now, if somehow one can induce change in her personality enough to make it NOT out of character, then more power to them (I firmly believe that anything can be done in fiction and be made believable... it's just a difficult matter of pulling it off).

Besides... if we did nothing but adhere to what's placed in front of us, we'd never have any of these Otaru ends up with _______ fics/art/doujinshi/interpretive dances, either. In fact, I think it'd make the fandom-- all fandoms-- pretty damn boring. That's like the very definition of fandom, after all: considering what lies beyond what we're allowed to see.

 

Good good...

I'm not going to let this die just yet, it's an interesting convo and Xel brings up several good points.

That's a very strong argument, but one that I am still inclined to disagree with. While it's true to say that just because we don't see it, that doesn't mean it's not there, thats not to say that it really DOES exist either.

To put your argument into perspective it's like saying that just because we haven't seen them do it, that doesn't mean that they don't/won't. Given the characters, the kind of characters they are, the growth they show through thier experiences, thier emotional makeup, to say that statement up above is rather...unfair? We forget that even though they have shown behavior that might lead us to think they might take thier relationships in that direction, they have also shown (in an overwhelming abundance) behavior that shows they they aren't willing to take it in that direction. Hanagata aside (there's always an exception to the rule) they have, time and again, been given the opportunity to take the next step and they did not. It's easy to forget that they made the choice on more than one occasion to turn down that road. Yes, the behavior is there for them to do it, but so is the behavior for them NOT to do it. Therin lies much of the charm in the series.

Besides, from the way I look at that argument it's like saying that the Pope (May God bless his soul) might have acted on his own desires. He's a human being, and he was a man no less. He was no different than anyone of us. It was there just like any one of us, but he made choices of his own and thus lead his life down his own different path. True, just because we didn't see it in an overwhelmingly blatent form, that didn't mean that it wasn't there, but because of his character, and because of the kind of man he was he didn't, and we can say this for a fact. I feel the same thing can be said about the characters.

You also said that if we simply stick to what we saw then we would never have any of these different takes on what could have happened. We wouldn't have those fics out there that make us think about what would have been. "Dances" as you put it, a fitting term. I agree with that 100%. Fandom SHOULD be about considering what lies beyond what we are allowed to see. But there are still a few things that people are edgy about, things that they would feel uncomfortable seeing. You can always argue "Well, then they shouldn't read it." and I agree, I'm not about smothering anyone's right to say or write what ever they want, but to put how I feel about it in perspective to you it would be like your kids... Nah, not even that, your friend's kid making pr0nographic videos. Lets say he/she is of age, yaadeeyaa.

Wouldn't you still feel uncomfortable viewing something like that? How would you handle yourself the next time you see them? Suddenly you find that your emotions towards them have changed and you lost what you two had before. Everything just 'seems' different, and that's enough.

It's something to that effect. It's a little unnerving to see people you were once 'familiar' with in such an uncomfortable situation. Viewing something you really shouldn't be looking at. It might be a little like invasion of privacy. I have the same stance as you with regards to sex and that mojo. Between two people it's something special, almost sacred right? But to post ibberish up all over the internet for all to see, well it loses that 'intamacy' that made it something special between the two people. It becomes more of a peep show with drama.

The very culture we live in is divided on this issue much like you and I are. 'Making Babies' is something that some people are comfortable with, while others are not. I simply feel that portraying images and characters from familiar settings we know in that kind of situation is... "unfair" to them. Even if it were to happen, it would be thier moment, something special between the two of them and no one else. It's not really something I would want to stick my head into and watch.

Yeah yeah, they're only animed characters, get a life, they're not real, okay, okay, that still doesn't change the fact that I don't beleive that portraying them in such a light is 'true' to their characters. Sure I understand that it would never happen unless we make it happen, but that still makes it awkward and uncomfortable in my eyes. Remember that they HAVE proven in the past that they were unwilling to take things one step further. That is as much a character/personality trait as thier tendancy to harbor those kind of desires. That is the biggest reason why I can never seem to buy these matchups that go all the way. It's betraying to whom the characters evolved into.

I believe fandom should explore different avenues when they're creating, writing, drawing, or simply expressing thier ideas. That indeed IS the very definition of fandom (I'm stealing your quote btw). It is my beleif that some avenues should be left alone, or to be better stated- to be left between the charaters themselves.

That said, let me clarify one more thing-

You said

I disagree with the last part of that statement. I beleive that if and when fandom truly blooms, its true meaning is realized and even the most outlandish left field scenarios suddenly become possible, believable, there IS a level modesty to consider- A very important one. It's one thing to infer or, hell, to simply say "They made love that night." It's another thing entirely to do into details describing the whole damn thing. That's where the modesty lies. In one scenario (I feel) you keep the sanctity of the moment between them and the story continues as you intended. In the other, the moment becomes almost a distraction to the story itself, and it begins to lose its meaning. The modesty lies in how far you choose to take it. To keep the story 'mature' or to go ahead and turn it into... well, you get the idea.

My entire argument has been about the latter form of 'modesty', the more descriptive kind. I just hope I clear up some confusion or any misconceptions that might have occured.

Whew... I think I said too much again...

I'm still floating on the otherside of the world, the end is still a ways off yet. AT least I still have much love to argue. Hi-ho to everyone back home. I hope things are going well for y'all.

This is the wert, signing out.

 

I had a daydream the other day...

I was interviewing the girls about exactly the same subject. It went more or less like this:

Lime: "So you think really I would enjoy that?"
Me: "Um... nope."
Lime: "Of course not... it's... awful! In fact it makes me very uncomfortable... this is not me! I want to LOVE people! This isn't love!" (at this point she began crying) "It's... it's just so sad that guys think of me this way... I just want to make people happy... can't you guys understand that? I just want to help others... that's all I want..."
(I give her a tissue)
Lime: "Thanks... anyway, I would like to hug all the lonely guys in the world... and tell them that they shouldn't feel lonely, that there must be someone for them... I just wanna help..."

My next interview was with Cherry.
Cherry: "Oh no, they got it all wrong. I want a man who loves me and appreciates me, and feels attracted to me despites being..."
Me: 'small'?
(Cherry blushes) Yes... I'm a romantic... I want a man to respect me, and take care of me... not some sort of beast who just uses me to satisfy his... filth!
Me: But what about your fantasies?
Cherry: They were about Otaru... is he selfish? Is he a depraved loser who has nothing to do but watch porn on his computer? Is he?
Me: No..
Cherry: I admit it, yes, I'm passionate, I have fantasies, i'm a woman after all! But I also have feelings... I want to be loved!

(Bloodberry's interview)

Bloodberry: You know this already, There have been only two men in my life: Otaru, and Akashi. I wanted to seduce Otaru because...
Me: Yes?
Bloodberry: I was afraid... of losing him... yes, call me selfish, call me an opportunist, but I *needed* him! When Akashi met me... it was the first - second time someone would actually show interest in me... and didn't look at me as an object...
Me: An object - you mean a marionette?
Bloodberry: Yes, but also, an attractive female. Of course I'm using my charms to seduce the people that I'm interested in, but NOT to the pleasure of everyone who just wants to get laid.
Me: But you show off often... why then...?
Bloodberry: When you feel lonely, you often show off... so people will find an interest in you. But even then... I felt...
Me: Yes?
Bloodberry (shedding a couple of tears) : Lonely. I feel lonely, dammit... (Stands up, crying, and the interview ends)

Considering this, would you think about a SMJ doujin? Would you? If you show interest in this, is because you consider the girls to be *real*. Well, if they're real for you, at least consider their feelings.

For boards.jp, this is Luvweaver.
(cut!)