Debate The Pledge Of Allegiance

IMO, they should just leave it be. It's been the same for decades. Also, the mass population of Americans are Christians. And for those who are not, they do no have to say "Under god." No one is forcing them. They can leave that part out- why make such a huge fuss over it?

 

So? Not ALL of the nation is, therefore it is NOT one nation under God. Furthermore, it originally did NOT include the phrase. But it had been the same for decades. Under your own logic, including Under God was a mistake.

I have a better idea. Yank "under God' out, and if someone wants to add it, they can go ahead. Why?

1) It obviously is NOT a religiously unified nation.
2) State and Church are seperate.
3) Is a young kid going to drop it, or is he going to give into peer pressue?

 

By that logic, shouldn't we have kept slavery, laws against interracial marriage, and denied women the right to vote? I realize that those are much larger issues, but the principle is essentially the same. Just because something's been around and many people accept it doesn't automatically make it OK. Besides, that phrase was only added about 50 years ago.

So? That shouldn't give them any more rights than other people. Recognizing the Christian faith in something like the Pledge sends a real message that, while America was supposed to have been founded with religious tolerance in mind, it does favor one religion to the point that it won't acknowledge others in important expressions of loyalty and patriotism.

For the third time: Except in school, where you are punished or reprimanded if you don't say the pledge. You can't just take out the parts you don't want to say, not in school - school is all about conformity.

And, therefor, if I want to pledge allegiance to my country, I shouldn't have to also imply a pledge to Christianity, God, or anything else religious in nature.

For all you arguing in favor of the phrase "under God" - if you're Christian, would you agree to say "under Allah" if the majority of Americans were Muslim?

 

The phrase "under god" was placed in for somewhat of a very stupid reason, that was to show that the communists were heartless turds, while we america were loving of one god, while the communists worshipped satan, i beg to differ.

 

i belive in god, but thats besides the point. I refuse to even stand for the pledge when it is anounced everyday durring class. If i am standing, the se. the pedge is announced, i drop to the floor anouncing the pledge to the earth. They can't do anything to me because of what i choose to do or not. so if u choose not to.. sit down..thats ur right. we houldnt have to pledge out live to any country..there should be no bourders.. it should be the world.. and it should be free for all to rome without any connotations of religion, gender, or even race.. peace and love.. or else i guess im a major dreamer

 

personally i don't care, i think people just want something to mess with. leave the plegde alone. weve been saying the pledge for years and now people have a problem with the words "under god." :anger2:


someone save me im over cooking. :sad: :sad: :sad:

 

well personally I would like to see all churches across the world burned and torn to the ground.. this is a good example of why the wishes of just one small person are not that important.
what's important is a persons right not to have another religions quaint antiquities forced down their, and their childrens throats.

 

I don't think that the pledge should be forced on anyone. I sincerely believe that the constant repeating of it makes it lose any meaning and sucks out any remaining partriotic spirit in children. They should just be a blank put in place of God so you can fill in your choice of religious person, or just not say anything if you don't have one.

 

i dont say it because i hate the united states.. i hate all countried... i think anarchy is the right way to go.. u can go to chuch if you wish.. i go to church because i believe... peace and love.. i don't say the pledge because i don't like "under god".. i dont like that we pledge out life to.. a country.. we are humans not wepons...we are not tools.. we shouldn't have to say something if u dont believe in it....

 

Oh Hell yes. Anarchy is the way to go. That way we can go around and do whatever we damn well please. Then we can go and kill someone just because they look at us funny and people can't do **** about it, except, y'know, try and kill us too for killing that person. But then we can also like break into stores and take whatever we want, and we can get away with it, 'cause it's not against the law! Because there IS no law! And then if they damn-well pleased, the church could start taking in warriors again and providing them with fire-arms so they can go and punish all the "heretics". I shall call it "The Crusades II: Back With A Vengeance". But then, in turn, any one of us can take up arms and kill all of those "Warriors Of God" and gun 'em down because, Hell, it's anarchy and we can do whatever we want! Oh, and don't even forget about all those pedophiles that can now get away with molesting little children only on a technicality of questionable methods, actions, and taste.

I like the way you think, buddy.

[/sarcasm]

 

Well, yeah, pretty much. Most kids don't really understand what the pledge means, they just say it because they're supposed to. I know that was why I said it, and I resented it. The repetition is more detrimental than anything - it lessens the overall effect and encourages people to ignore what they're actually saying, thus depriving the words of any deep sentiment. Kids shouldn't be pledging allegiance to ANYTHING - a government, a country, or a religion - until they can understand the significance something like that is meant to have.

Personally, I'd support removing the Pledge of Allegiance from elementary schools completely, but that's not the issue here.

And for certain people who are going on about hating the government... Care to back up your opinion with some actual facts or persuasive arguments, preferably in the thread Neph so kindly started about anarchy? ~_^ I actually don't see what relevance those statements had to the inclusion or removal of "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

obviously you dont quite understand anarchy.. its a beliefe that there is not goverment yes.. but it is a way that the people rule it....anarchey is a greek word for "no goverment". politics is not goverment.. people make theur own rules.. .. there is a way to create rules.. but its more of a moral issue.. its alot better then what we call "democrysy" where the rich get richer and the poor gets pooer. innosent people get killed.. for money.. for power.. for greed... ya.. its a bad thing if a chain is created.. but its better then thinking that the person that killed your loved one is let free... that the thing.. .. ill say more later.
peace and love

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anarchy

Look and read. What do you see? Lawlessness. And do you honestly think innocent people wouldn't be killed in an anarchic state?! If I liked your shoes, all I would have to do is snap your neck and take them for myself!

Honestly, you think democracy is oh so bad and oh so wrong. Do you honestly believe that?

It has been estimated that more than three quarters of the world's population does not even have telephone service. Most of us probably have two or three separate numbers.

Throughout history, very few of the world's people were able to marry for love instead of practicality. We consider it our destiny and our birthright to do so.

In most parts of the world, there's no such thing as pizza delivery. I have no freakin' idea how people live without pizza delivery.

We feel sorry for ourselves if we make middle-class wages instead of rich-guy wages. But in comparison to the whole world, every one of us lives in obscene luxury. When Mikhail Gorbachev saw a supermarket for the first time, he thought it had been specially built just to impress him.

We think we're destitute when we drive an old car. Most of the world's population does not own cars at all.

When we look at our children, we worry about whether they will be unhappy. When people in impoverished nations look at their children, they pray that they won't die of disease or malnutrition.

Our religious fundamentalist nutjobs haven't yet seized control of the government, unlike all of those Islamic dictatorships. And if we keep an eye on them, they never will.

Conversely, in anarchy... there'd be none of that. Rule would ultimately fall to those with the most power and adaptability. Humanity would NOT suddenly become the Care Bears wankfest if you removed the government.

 

I don't know why so many people whine over the Pledge. It's not mandatory to recite.

What I love is the people who whine and moan over the Pledge of Allegiance, but yet you never see them complain about not being able to work on Christmas. If they're going to protest over "under God" in something that isn't mandatory to recite, then why do they not protest Christmas? Christmas is a religious holiday, and since we observe it, how is that separation of church and state?

 

Although some wouldn't go as far as to call it "mandatory" there are numerous schools in which punishments are given for not reciting the pledge or standing to the flag (I myself have fallen victim to this numerous times).

And there's no reason to protest Christmas because it's not affecting anything that has to do with what's supposed to be considered "state". In the Pledge you are pleding your allegiance to the country, though in the same phrase, as well as to God, which is exactly going against what was intended.

It's not as if people are telling you "Christmas IS America so celebrate Christmas. Or else you will be in trouble!"

 

Oh please, Zanzoken. That's so misguided I don't even know where to begin. Wait a minute, I know precisely where to begin, so I will.

First of all, it is categorically untrue that people are forced not to work on Christmas. Prison guards, 911 operators, news personnel and many other professions all work on Christmas Day. As for private businesses shutting down for the day, the individual workers have no say in the matter - If management decides the business will not operate on Christmas, then the doors are locked and the gates are shut. The person can try to get the business not to do so, but as you said, most people like the break and so most of the time it doesn't change.

As for the day's status, it was officially declared a federal holiday sometime in the 19th century (I think it was President Grant). It may have originally had a religious connotation to it, but the holiday is there just to recognize the ideas of Jesus, not his religion. For another example of that, just look at Martin Luther King Day. The government doesn't say that you *have* to adhere to what he believed in - It's just an acknowledge of the good the man did for our country. Same with Jesus. Though I'm sure there *are* people working to remove that status from Christmas.

Furthermore, you don't *know* that Michael Newdow and all the other people working to change the pledge celebrate Christmas. Even if they have a Christmas tree up and exchange presents, that doesn't mean that they're buying into the religious ideas - My family has celebrated Christmas so for the last 19 years and not one of us considers ourselves a Christian. We're not hypocrites; we're just enjoying a day off and engaging in an American tradition.

 

Did you even read the previous posts in this thread? -_-;

Because other religious (and non-religious) holidays are observed as well. No one is required to celebrate Christmas, nor are all public celebrations, school holiday activities (which generally focus on the non-religious aspect of holidays anyway), and holiday broadcasts Christmas-themed. However, there is only ONE Pledge of Allegiance, and as silly as I find that entire concept, it's not appropriate to have a religious phrase in it.

 

Hey it's their country and if they don't like it **** them

 

ell

idont know if anybody said this because i only looked at the first page ofthe posts and its a fact that the ledge of allegiance acctually started without the words "under god" and they added them. Since my dad was an athiest and my mom a die hard christan i didn't know wht to believe when i first heard it but my opinion is no, why was it added in the first place.
incase n e of you are wonderin why arent god bless america and america the beautiful , which both have the word god, arent in this mix is because the goverment has nothing to do with it, but the pledge of alligance is the offical united states song, and the first addmendment says the government will have nothing to do with religion

 

Um... what? This contributes to the debate HOW, exactly? -_-;;

Last I checked, America was supposed to respect even minority beliefs and opinions - now, we all know that it doesn't necessarily, people get shoved aside by the majority here all the time. But we can attempt to correct that. The "like it or get out" mentality goes against everything that America is theoretically supposed to be.