Square Enix FFVII - Story Theory

In the wake of FFVII:AC, I've resurrected myself to be re-interested in FFVII's original story.

Please feel free to talk about anything else regarding FFVII's story in this thread. May I ask that we keep this thread spoiler-free of FFVII:AC until it has been released in America and Europe.

I made this thread to clarify a few things which I didn't quite get/forgot when I played the game first time round (oh, so long ago it was).

1. Why is it that only Cloud gets a strong reaction whenever Sephiroth is near.

2. WEAPONS were created by the planet long long before the game starts, but I don't recall why they started attacking the cities all of a sudden in the game.

3. Never quite understood why Holy, supposedly the answer to counter Meteor aides it upon crashing onto the planet (last FMV scene of game). Remember that it was not Holy, but lifestream which saved the planet.

Red XIII also said something about "It's having the opposite effect" - referring to Holy. It clearly did have an opposite effect to what the group anticipated, but that was not what Aeris hoped for and basically died for. So why did it have an opposite effect?

Let's begin the discussions!

- Shen

 

21 years before the start of FFVII, Cloud was born in the town of Nibelheim. At the age of 16 he attempted to jion Shinra's special military group called SOLDIER. He failed. He later joined Shinra's normal military. He later went back to the town of Nibelheim on a mission with Zack, Sephiroth, and another anonymous person from Shinra's military. After the mission, Sephiroth went crazy and burned down Nibelheim. Cloud was unconcious laying on the ground during this. After the fire stopped, Cloud had survived and Hojo found him. Because Sephiroth was dead now, Hojo experiment on Cloud to make him a Sephiroth clone. It was not a success so Hojo didn't give Cloud a number, altered his memories to make him believe he did what Zack did, and dumped him in Midgar near the train station.

Cloud gets a strong reaction when Sephiroth is near because that is a side effect of him being an attempted clone of Sephiroth.

That should of explained a lot.

All I can say to that is because meteor is coming and it's going to be the end of the world.

I can't answer the other questions because I haven't yet beaten the game but I'm working on that.

 

I know about the Nibelheim incident but after the fight between Cloud and Sephiroth, in which Cloud won. Didn't Hojo (or was it Gast?) test both Zack and Cloud, who were both severely injured by Sephiroth, and found that Cloud had a reaction when infused with JENOVA cells? But still, why would this be if Cloud actually made physical contact with Sephiroth for the first time? (and so did Zack but he didn't respond the way Cloud did).

Also, didn't Zack help Cloud escape because he was subject to further experimentation but ended up getting killed on the outskirts of Midgar by Shinra soldiers? Cloud wielded his sword in memory of him.

Hmmm, not convinced. Are you saying WEAPONs started responding to protect planet from Meteor by attacking random cities and villages?

- Shen

 

.......You lost me.... I don't remember seeing any of those things in the game.... Then again I haven't beaten it yet but I've gotten to the final battle and that tiny little difference shouldn't make much of a difference besides what happens after.

Hmm.....I forgot to consider a few parts in my earlier explanation. Where are you getting the Zack getting killed from Shinra soldiers from because I don't ever remember that happening but I've seen other people talk about it.....

Well.....pretty much, yeah. They started destroying stuff hoping that something they destroyed was making meteor come and it would stop coming when they destroyed it. I'm still wondering about this myself.

 

Right, obviously there's been a memory leak and I've neglected the fact of Cloud believing himself as Zack until he fell in the lifestream.

The fact is true that WEAPONS were created by the planet to protect it from further harm... as a response when JENOVA landed, but they were never utilized to be used against her. But in the recent years they attacked places like Junon and Midgar (places with Mako reactors - where lifestream is sucked out of the planet). So I see the link... took them quite some time to respond seeing that Mako reactors came about a few years before the game started.

Ok, I think I've got points 1 and 2 cleared, just a little iffy about the last one.

N.B: Spoilers ahead

Well, Meteor was summoned by Sephiroth to dent the planet in order to absorb all the lifestream (as it comes out to repair the damage) and eventually becoming omnipotent. I don't think meteor can be cancelled once it has been summoned.

WEAPONs only respond to damages on the planet, i.e. attack places with Mako reactors or weak areas (like Izzy said) where lifestream reaches the surface. The fact that Omega gets killed by sister ray, I doubt it can hold off a meteor.

 

No, I've been through that part 3 or 4 times. If I hadn't I wouldn't know that it was Zack who went to Nibelheim and that Cloud was one of the extra Shinra soldiers. The game has never shown me anything between Cloud throwing Sephiroth into the life stream and Tifa finding Cloud in Midgar in the storyline. Maybe it's because my FFVII is the greatest hits version.

They were probably desinged to fight a powerful being, like maybe Sephiroth, but they couldn't get to him and had to worry about meteor so they focused on that.

 

That's a bit silly if that's the case (or maybe you just havn't got to that part yet). The Nibelheim incidient is one of the most important parts of the game and is where Sephiroth's quest starts, when he learns about his true history... though he never was clear about it all, up until the end.

- Shen

 

Yeah, that flashback is when Cloud goes back into the basement on Disc 3. I finally went back and saw it. So uh, what were the problems we were trying to fix again?

 

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't that flashback when Cloud was in the Lifestream already? And Tifa was helping him sort through his memories?

It's been awhile since *I* played, but I seem to remember it being from then.

BTW, Izzy, I *love* that avatar.

 

OK let's start with the flashbacks. There are two. One is when Cloud and Tifa are in the life stream and the other is when you go back to the basement of Shinra Mansion.

But, they were both infected when they left the basement and went to Midgar. Let me try to explain. Ok the whole Sephiroth going crazy thing happens and Cloud throws him into the life stream. People from Shinra find him and Zack or something close to that and they bring them to the basement of the Shinra Mansion. They put them in the tube thingies. This is where all of the experimenting takes place. They both get injected with Jenova cells. Zack had no reaction but Cloud did. One day a person brought them food but when he opened Zack's tube thingy Zack killed him and set Cloud free. Then they go to Midgar in the back of this dude's truck. When they get there the Zack getting shot by the Shinra soldiers thing happens.

 

One Winged Angel

I'll try my best to clear up any confusion. Here goes...


FLASHBACKS


The Last Order OVA was a little different than the game in the fact that Sephiroth threw himself into the Lifestream at the bottom of the Mako Reactor vice Cloud throwing him over in the Game. You guys are a little mixed up about that whole event. Lemme try and iron it out for ya.

Cloud was NOT infected with anything. He was just as surprised as Zack and Tifa was about the whole thing. When Cloud found Tifa and saw Zack all torn up he got angry and launched himself at Sephiroth

IN THE GAME: Cloud and Sephiroth faced off over the bridge on the Mako Reactor. Sephiroth impales Cloud, an all his anger over what happened Cloud refuses to fall, finds some hidden strength, and sends Sephiroth over the edge, blade and all.

IN THE OVA: Cloud and Sephi face off in the inner chamber of hte Mako Reactor, Cloud initiates the fight by impaling Sephi, Sephi flips his lid, stabs Cloud, grabs Jenova's head and as he's about to flee Cloud pulls the blade free. Sephi, wanting to return mommy to the promise land, throws himself with Jenova's head in to the Mako below.

Both times Cloud is stunned because his "hero" Sephiroth went berserk on his own home town. Afterwards he's messed up because HE WAS STABBED. Jenova had nothing to do with him at that point. After Hojo gets his hands on Zack and Cloud he does his experiments and Jenova gets infused into him along with a Mako Shower -> Cloud Never made it into soldier thus never received the Mako shower soldiers are subject to. The reason his eyes glowed was because of Hojo's Mako/Jenova Experimentations. The whole point was to create another Sephiroth by mixing Mako and Jenova Cells. That's why Hojo called Cloud a "Failure", and that's why Cloud thought he was Sephiroth's clone for a while. He reacted oddly around Sephi because of the internals of his mind and the Jenova cells playing with him.

Spoiler: FF:VII GAME

Well, you don't really see the real Sephiroth until they hit the crater (except in the flashbacks), just the little Jenova Clones running around posing as him. Why do you think you fight Jenova whenever you see Sephi?

Advent Children helps to clear this up, (when you start putting the pieces together)... and that's all I'm going to say about that.

Sorry, once more not totally true. Cloud assumed Zack's identity because he was still ashamed of his failure to become a soldier. That's why he went into Nibelhiem incognito. He "Assumed" Zack's role and fed the lie to those he knew. At one point Cloud couldn't tell the difference between his lie and what actually happened which lead to his coma. At the end of the Second Disc when everyone get's back together after the coma he apologizes to everyone for lying.

The Flashbacks occur in Kalm outside of Midgar (Disc 1), When Cloud falls into the Lifestream (Disc 2), and when you return to the basement in Shinra Mansion on disc three and read the scratches on the side of the green canisters down there.


WEAPON


Weapon's are the planet's retaliatory defense system. When did they suddenly appear? When Cloud gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth in the crater. Sephiroth used the Materia and almost immediately summoned Meteor. Meteor was going to Kill the planet. So in retaliation Planet set the Weapons free.

Spoiler

Spoiler: FF:VII GAME

What happens when a person dies? They return to the lifestream. Well Shinra had been using the lifestream as an energy source for a great while, USING IT UP. It seems Planet intended on pulling the Lifestream as a last resort. It wasn't counting on Holy at all. The Weapons had a two tiered purpose- #1 Hopefully kill what ever the hell it was that summoned Meteor and stop it, and #2 Flood the lifestream once again so that the planet could use it as a viable defensive mechanism. How do you flood the drained lifestream? Kill some people and send them back.

The Weapons couldn't stop Meteor by conventional means, it wasn't their purpose.


HOLY


Holy was the Counter to Meteor. When a soul praying for Holy enters the lifestream it is summoned to help defend the Planet.

When a soul praying for holy returns to the lifestream, Holy is summoned

Alot of people miss this and always wonder why Aeris died. She needed to die so that she could return to the lifestream and summon Holy. That was what her "Useless" Materia did. When Cloud and Co return to her burial ground they see the Holy Materia in the water, glowing, indicating that Holy had been activated.

Spoiler: FF:VII GAME

However Sephiroth, who was also an infused part of the Lifestream, managed to block it. Right before the final battle when you see the "true" Sephiroth he's got Holy caged in the background. Once he was taken care of Holy released itself and tried to come to the planet's aid

The only explanation the game gives us was the it was released too late and could not properly defend the planet. Rather than repel it, it began to draw Meteor in.

Why?

Iunno. It's one of those contrived "Star Trek" explanations where things just seem to randomly happen and it makes sense to everyone else but the viewer.

Ejemplo:

Shatner: "My god, Mr. Spock, the infusium complexion is negating itself through a series of sub-atomic phaser ray decays!!"

Nemoy: "Fascinating"

Viewer: "WTF?!"

Whew. Hopefully I cleared some things up. FF:VII was my passion for a while, so it feels really good to flex those old braincells and dust out the cobwebs up there.

~Wert: the hot air balloon

 

I still think Cloud actually thought he was Zack. When Tifa finds Cloud near the trainstation in Midgar, Cloud has one of those little flash-and-beep moments before he can remember anything. This points out that the Jenova cells are affecting his train of thought and cause him to think he was someone he's not probably because of his clothes being so similar to Zack's and his sword being Zack's.

That's a mistake on SE's or whatever company made the OVA (which I'm still not sure what OVA stands for exactly) part. There are a lot of problems appearing now on SE's part mostly because they can't leave FFVII alone right now. For example: FFVII minigames are appearing as games for cell phones. The movie FFVII Advent Children has been made in Japan. FFVII Dirge of Cerebus(or however you spell it) is a sequal to FFVII and takes placer after Advent Children and is being made. FFVII Before Crisis is a prequel to FFVII and it's going to be on the "mobile" whatever that is. There's also another spin-off that has the initials of FFVII: CC that I have yet to find anything about it. They should of just left FFVII where it was.

Oh yeah, I'm starting to get off topic now but there's the extremly high chance of an FFVII remake for the PS3. SE argues that the tech demo for the PS3 which had a recreation of the intro movie to FFVII was just something they put together for the tech demo. Why? It's not SE's job to make a tech demo for one specific system especially when they said the FF's are no longer going to Sony exclusive. And because of all the spin-offs, why wouldn't they remake it? It looks to me that all of the spin-offs and the tech demo are a way to tease us and create large scale attention for the FFVII remake. Yet again, they should of just left it alone.

[/rant mode]

Your thoughts are wrong. They said they would go kill Sephiroth and then return to the City of the Ancients to use Holy.

 

Exactly. There's a few things you need to keep in mind-

#1: The only real Sephiroth is the one in the Northern Crater. The rest were little Jenova Rip-offs (though the term "rip-off's" doesn't really give them true justice...) sent out to raise havoc and get the Black Materia back to the real one.

#2: Sephiroth sealed Holy in the Northern Crater. Just before the final battle there's the brief scene where the entire gang is floating around, staring down Sephiroth in the center of the screen. Behind him is this large, blue glowing orb imprisoned in side this round, rock-like cage. That's Aeris' Holy. After they defeat Sephiroth where did Holy explode out from? The northern crater.

#3: Holy DID work, but Sephi was holding it back. If you remember before they engage Sephiroth for the final time, when they were still on board the Highwind, Cloud refrences Aeris and her sacrifice and says something to the effect of "If we fail now, that smile will freeze on her face." Also remember that Materia that fell from Aeris' hair when she died? That was Holy. You see it twice in the game- Once when she dies and another time when they return to the old capital (her grave). Both times depicted the Materia settled in the sand glowing, indicating that her sacrifice had indeed worked. Holy had been summoned, but Sephiroth was holding it back. Remember he had the powers of Jenova on his side, and Jenova was a creature outside the bounds of the Lifestream and the Planet. That was why Hojo and Shinra were so obsessed with her.

Eternal-Blaze you're also a little off the mark. Holy had already been cast- all they needed to do was kill Sephiroth and free it. In order to use Holy again they would need to kill someone else as they were praying for holy- which would have been a nightmare. Once Sephi was dead Holy released itself in a glorious blaze, exploding out of the Norther Crater nearly taking out the Highwind in the process.

For Cloud the final battle was for himself, but more importantly, it was for Aeris. Towards the end of the second disc on the Highwind and when they are deep within the crater they make it clear- Kill Sephiroth or Aeris' death would be in vain.

Did Sephiroth know what he was doing when he killed her? Sure he was killing the last remaining Ancient, but did he realize she was Praying to Holy, and that by slaying her was doing exactly what she wanted him to do?

Aeris knew about Holy, how to cast it, and the price that came along with it. Still, the end of Disc one was probably my single most shockingly emotional moments in Video Game History. Dude, I cried...

...I spent almost twenty hours of fighting trying to get her Great Gospel right before left to head to the temple.

All to waste... All to waste...


Microsoft Plans on releasing Halo 3 on the same day PS3 ships, just to spite Sony. If Sony releases an FF:VII remake for the PS3 on that day then let me tell you- Halo will be DOA. Even I would go out of my way to get a copy of the PS3 JUST TO GET THAT GAME.

The FF:VII remake has been on the rumor wagon for quite some time now, though. We can only hope, ya?

 

Was there a reason to why the OVA was a tad different to the events in the game? Most notably Sephiroth jumping into the lifestream in the OVA and Cloud tossing him into the lifestream in the game?

OVA - Original Video Animation

Anyone notice the trend of all the recent FFVII compilations?

FF: AC
FF: BC
FF: CC
FF: DC

And they are all being released in that order as well? (Or at least I think AC and BC were released at nearly the same time in Japan)

- Shen