Debate Gay and Lesbian Rights?

I think there should be gay and lesbian rights! I mean, they are human beings right? So why can't they love someone of the opposite sex?? I mean my mom is lesbian, and I love her like the world. And her girlfriend is like my sister! Fi they pass the law of no gay and lesbian marriges, I'm leaving the U.S. and never coming back!

I also think that the U.S. shouldn't base things off of magoraty, (SP?) but off of people's happiness. I mean, the people against gay and lesbian rights, usually have nothing to do with it! So why should they care?! Grr. X.X

 

I know SerenityX,I know..I like Jenna and Your mom too...And I would have to agree with you,that they shouldn't care for the majority,but the happiness of others! That's wrong and dissapointing to me...But I can't really say or change anything about the way the government thinks...I'm not up with the idea of you leaving forever(you ARE my best friend) But Whatever happens Happens...I'm so sorry Seren...I hope they don't pass that law..

 

SerenityX, I agree with most of what you said, but I take criticism with one of your points:

"I mean, the people against gay and lesbian rights, usually have nothing to do with it! So why should they care?!"

They care because either their religious teachings don't allow for it or they're just homophobic and don't understand. But just because it doesn't directly involve people doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to affect it. Should only women be allowed to determine the public policy on abortion? Should only veterans be allowed to make decisions on foreign policy? Should only immigrants be allowed to vote on whether we close the borders? Of course not, and that's why people who've never met a homosexual in their life have the right to try and deny rights to them.

 

SerenityX, you and i both know that society is stuborn. how long did it take for the workplace, and the homefront to view women equal? too long! ...and some countries still find us inferior!

for some reason, we don't like change...we like tradition. So when the man is not scene as the 'provider' for his family...thats when gay people will be treated equal

 

Even though there are religions against it, there are a lot of things in the bible that we humans don't do anymore. For instance: Do we go to shrines and make animeal sacrafices? No. So why should they still uphold this?

 

oi

I don't get it either..but I would have to agree with Kaniji and Billy277...

 

well your only talking about the old testiment^^.thats why jesus came. because mankind was unclean. their had to be a better way to make forgiveness easier. so God sent jesus( so the bible says ). but back on topic^^. i also think that man is supose to be with women because we are like pencils and sharpeners( that is so lame ). two pencils : don't go together. now for whatever reason people go gay?......i really don't care :blush:

 

Uhhh, is it just me, or do I, someone who is not Christian, know the Bible better than many Christians?

Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Anyway, for reproductive purposes, yes, men and women need each other. However, sex doesn't have to be for reproductive purposes. Furthermore, even the straight couples can't always reproduce. Furthermore, homosexuality has been observed in nature in many, many animals.

Thus, it's easy to see that homosexuality is a natural thing sometimes.

Besides, why should one have less rights just because their sexual lifestyle keeps them from reproducing?

 

its the human way to interfer with others lives they can't help it.
just like they can't help the seven deadly sins . Gluttony Lust Greed Sloth pride Invy and Anger.

some people are aganist it because maybe there parents or frineds are aganist gays and lesbians.

some people see it as either you are or your not.

 

Where your rights end is where my rights begin and it says in the bible it is a sin to be gay now answer this one for me why would you want to vow your devotions to god when he the good lord himself says it is wrong so when they turn you down because your mom wants to get married or something there actually doing you and your mom a favor because when your mom marrys that would be a major sin and there trying to protect you and your mom... so i say NO there should not be aloud gay marriages :anger2:

 

good point but do see men now of day going to the ocean lifting up a staff and all of a sudden the waters rise no but that still don't stop people from going to church and praiseing jesus or god i'll be sure if i herd a vocie that said it was jesus in the back of my head and it was saying to sacrafice a animal i would be out there in a heart beat roasting sheep or something back then people had stronger relegion back then god told people to do more of things than he does now so i'm saying this yes we should up hold his writes because he still does miricles today

 

Cowboy, your entire argument is shot down by the facts that...

A) Church and State are seperate.
B) Not all religions forbid gays.
C) Atheists (who would use civil unions) certainly aren't going to be affected by your religion.


Besides, the same book of the Bible that forbids homosexuality also forbids eating shellfish, or wearing clothing made of two different types of fabric. So, why are those last two ignored while the first must be upheld?

Edit: Also, if you heard a voice calling itself Jesus, and it told you to KILL someone, would you do it? Furthermore, as far as the stories in the Old Testament goes, a lot of those are... *ahem*... embellishments.

 

:glazed:

Acts 10:9-16 would be why
Amusingly, Peter's experience there sort of reflects that quote from Cowboy hehe

 

But this is contradicted by...

Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practises and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

In other words, none of the old laws were to be changed. Furthermore, that quote you provided did not tackle the issue of shirts.

 

And there is the problem with quoting scripture

here's another version of those verses:

paraphrased: "I came not to destroy but to fulfill" "nothing will be taken from the law until all is fulfilled" He came, he fulfilled and certain parts of the law passed.

We could prolly toss these around all day Thoguh no, I can't think of one specifically saying it is OK now to wear a shirt of more than one material. It just gets lumped in with the whole law of Moses being fulfilled. bleh

 

Then of course there is the fact that some may interpret the first verse you posted as God giving MAGICAL clean versions of non-kosher animals...

 

That's one way to interpret it

Curse that whole interpretation thing Just look at all the different churches that claim to believe the same book.

This is a good argument for seperation of church and state. Though now that I think about it, how about the way different judges interpret the same Constitution? (or the equivalent document or laws if you're not in teh USA) Those wacky judges in California are getting overruled all the time. What a mess.

 

Hmmm. It's funny how everyone's argueing here but I found at least one thing wrong with what everyone is saying.

The problem is that you all and we as a human race debate the wrong way. We see things from only our perspective. I don't care if you're Gay, or it you're mom's gay or who's Bibles says what. Just Stop clean you're mind of any stereotypes you have, take a deep breath and just try to step outside of you're body. Look at all this from a non-perspective point of view.

I'll go down a list, and tell everyone's story the way I see it​

Serenity_X wants rights for Gays and Lesbians becuase her mother is Lesbian, and Serenity loves her mother. Seren wants her mother to be happy and that is why she has chosen the side that she's on.

Step outside of the situation and take a look. If Serenity_X didn't love her mom would she still want Gay rights? Her chioce is fueled by love for her mother and not nessessarily a chioce of Right or Wrong.

Urikina Agrees because she cares about people's happiness, She wants people to be happy. And Urikina decides that this new law will keep certain people from being happy. Thus violating people's constitutional rights "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

Step outside of her mind and look at the reasoning behind this. What people see as happy isn't always good for them. That's why teenagers who do drugs, or attempt suicide get arrested. Just because something makes you happy, doesn't always mean it's healthy. Usually other's make decisions like that for you. Your parents, your government, your teachers. It all comes down to wisedom, moral, and ethics.

Kaniji is a bit different. She doesn't like the boundaries of Tradition. And so She assumes that traditionaly Gays and Lesbians were hated from the start.

Well, in ancient times, traditionaly Homosexuallity wasn't frowned upon but seen as normall. Ancient Greece was a very sexual society and So much of the population were gay. During wars the women would go to each other for comfort and sex. So tradition has nothing to do with it.

Billy277 has his/her own opinion but sees that not everything is crystal clear with a yes or no answer. Things in life are complex and you have to think about it in other people's perspectives

True, but in the end something has to be right or wrong. We might never find it, but it doesn exhist. And most people will want to go toward that perfection, even if it means judging others.

Neonoodle is the same. Acknowledging that one answer isn't enough.

But eventually you'll come to a conclusion. But those 7 sins can be helped. they can be surpressed. And don't say it's not worth it if they'll just come back. Those 7 sins can lead to your death and if you can surpress them then you'll obviously extend your life. It is worth battling them, everyday if needed.

Cowboy & Mimiya otaro Loves his/her bible, He/she can't explain what he feals but knows that it's written in that book. and that it must be right. Cowboy might not be able to explain it but has faith. Cowboy cares a lot about people, and doesn't actually hate gays but wants to keep them from sinning.

But that's like God cutting off Eves hands to keep her from sinning. People will always have a chioce. Regardless of consiquenses.

Both of them are trying to protect something. But they still don't see what's right under their eyes. We all do this. We look at the problem and not the solutions around it.

If you can't explaine soemthing usually it's best to keep quite. A bit like walking in front of the white-house and saying, "you're all going to die." You'd get shot. But if you explain to them why and how they won't kill you, but will listen to you. "There's a bomb in there, you're all going to die, hurry and get out" That will be saving their lives. And they'll be thankfull.

That was an old law that kept people pure since Jesus wasn't there. He is now here, therefor no more sacrafices. Not knowing the Bible's reasons or intensions that well, one has to be carefull what he/she quotes. Same goes for christians who bash Harry Potter and Yoga without really knowing anything about it.

So you're comparing humans with animals? Biblically speaking, Animals aren't judged when they die. They don't need to pray, nor seek purity. Homosexuality between 2 male dogs isn't the same as it is with humans. That's the Biblical chioce.

The secular reason is pretty different. The reason why sex feals good is so that you would WANT to reproduce. If sex wasn't good then it would be imbarissing to have sex with your spouce. You're naked in front of them but the hormons and sex drive is what keeps you from being imbarissed. It's the pleasure that drives us.

Huh, that's funny? Did you bother to read the 2 chapters right before this one? That would have straightened out Everything. When a person takes one quote from the bible and places it in front of everyone. It's useless... The bibles works through meaning, and factual/fictional storytelling.

Thats like me taking the word "w.h.o.r.e." out of the Bible and coming to the conclusion that it is a "sick" book. When really the bible doesn't glorify prostitution.

If you would have read the 2 chapters before Matwhew 5:17 you would see what he was talking about. During those 2 chapters Jesus just got done delivering an updated version of some very important commandments. And he was taling about how they are not to be broken, or changed. That they won't change or pass till the end of the world.

He also means the prophocies, the future of man-kind and the end of the world. The prophiets say that Jesus will come, salvation will begin, at the end the earth will become very violent and many will die...

Would you like to repeat that in front of the hundreds of people who crowded on a small boat sailing to the US for a new life. Away from a persecuting church. Seeking religeous freedom and establishing a nation who's dollar bill says "In God we trust"? I don't think they'd like to hear that. The USA is NOT a Christian nation. But it was started as one. Based on the beleife that God gives all a chioce. That's were freedom came in. so on and so on.

And actually the seperation of church and state is a myth. Has anyone here actualy taken the time to read the constitution??? The law states that The government cannot favor any ->ONE<- religion. But if you own and church or donate to one you get tax deductions. See. problem solves.

The thing here is we ALL assume things. Rather than checking to see if they are true or not. Don't be ashamed thought. We all do it. As long as you learn from it , it's helped you.


If you want to speak Biblicaly. -> People will always have chioces, You shouldn't make chioces for them, or tell them which is right or wrong, but should help them understand what each chioce might lead to. Because in the end it's not like people want to go to hell.

SerenityX You have the chioce to do so many things. You have to decide, don't ever let anyone make those chioces for you.

• You can either keep your beleife that Homosexuals should have a right, and show your mom support, and be there with her. Show her you care. Try to understand her.
• Love your mom not her life style. I loved my father but not the way he violently abused us. Just beucase you mom's gay doesn't mean it's who she is. It is just an attachment that makes her feal complete. And it is removable.

Hopefully this helped you guys out. I know what's it like to have everyone telling you to be this or be that. But sometimes you just have to escape from everyone and make that desision on your own...

 

...I should know, until 5 years ago I myself was battling Homosexuality. And with everyone telling me it wasn't possible or it was a part of me that couldn't be ignored. I proved everyone wrong. I prooved my self myself wrong.

And today i find that everyone actually goes through a stage where they are sexually tempted. That's right everyone here has at least once in there lives had a gay temptation. You might have automaticlly rejected it but none the less you've had one.

Some will get it and fight it. others are just immune to it. And some like me were very depressed during their teenage years. I was trying to find myself and when the temptation of Homosexuality was whispered in my ear I foolishly beleaved it. I can't beleive i was so gullable. But I learned from it now I'm here with you guys.

That's why I stress the importance of learning from your past. You can be the worst person on earth but if you learn from your mistakes you'll be living proof that no one should be left behind or give up hope.

Don't forget you have a chioce. Be the one that chooses it not the one that follows it blindly.

 

Humans are just very smart animals. Why shouldn't I?

I guess it's too bad not everybody cares about the Bible.

Actually, sex between housecats is very very painful for the female, but they still go at it. There are probably plenty of others that do it despite pain.

So?... Wait, wait, you think people who feel horny have zero self control?... Wow. How naive.

Edit: It just occured to me that you think spouses are embarressed when nude with each other. Why?! It's just the human form. Why should I be ashamed of who I am?

What, you mean...

Chapter 3: Wherein Jesus baptizes and is baptized, and talks about God burning the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Chapter 4: Wherein Jesus goes into the desert, and does not allow temptation to get the better of him.

...ummm........ I fail to see how this nullifies the fact that Jesus wasn't disrupting the old books.

You clearly fail to see the point, the point being that Jesus is simply saying "no, I'm not here to get rid of old ways."

Funny, all I'm seeing is foot washing and desert walking. Oh, wait. "Listen to God, don't tempt him, and only serve God." (Matthew, Chapter 4 in a nutshell)

Are you thinking of different chapters or something? I'm reading the freakin' King James Version here.

Keyword in that being "also"...

Certainly. I think they'd be rather happy.

They didn't intend to have their dollar bill say that. That was added much later. Go read this: http://quasisemi.com/ego/money.htm

Then you need to go re-read your history books.

Wrong. Do you have any idea how many of the founding fathers were non-Christian? Oh, wait, maybe I should yank something STRAIGHT FROM YOUR OWN CONSTITUTION.

The First Amendment
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...”

Or perhaps I should just further hammer the point in with more quotes from the founding fathers?

John Adams (the second President of the United States)

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”

From a letter to Thomas Jefferson:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

Additional quotes from John Adams:
“Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?”

“The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”

“...Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”


(to be continued, I hit the character limit)