Debate Gay and Lesbian Rights?

Not quite. All people have to believe in something. And messing around with what one chooses to believe, is messing around with his mind. Did you ever read the book "1984"? Or how about Farenheit 451? Anyway, in the declaration of human rights we read very interesting things regarding religion. It would be just as evil to ban religion as to try to impose one religion on others.

So, that goes against Neph's "if gay marriage is not a basic right, why not ban religion" argument.

Regarding the "acquired preference", i think that what Billy277 tried to say is, if homosexuality is acquired, then gay people have a choice whether to be gay or not, so trying to establish a law in favor of gay marriage would become trivial.

 

No they don't. I don't see aethiests dropping dead midwalk or anything.

Yes... hey wait. Religion can do the same things. Just change "Big Brother" to "God" in 1984. "God is watching you!" Whoa.

Precisely! That's the point I'm trying to make!!! Rights which are not necessary for survival are still important, and IT WOULD BE WRONG NOT TO LET THEM HAVE THEM.

You missed the point.

If thats true, then heterosexual people are simply enjoying an acquired taste too.

 

Atheists do not believe in a God, but most surely believe that it is their responsibility to try to improve the world, yadda yadda. When i say "believe", i did not say "believe in something supernatural". (sidenote: I know of atheists who believe in UFO's).

I just said "believe in SOMETHING" (emphasis added). And that something does not imply an invisile being, but can also refer to a set of morals. OK, to get rid of the ambiguity, let's use the word "convictions".

So my point is, you cannot tell people what they should believe (including morals) or not.

And the freedom of religion _IS_ mentioned in the declaration of human rights, and this should be the basis for all the laws.
---------------------- end of religion subthread --------------

Any law that would go against the declaration of human rights, could (and should - or "must" if you prefer) be banned.

OK now, before someone (ahem) starts bashing me again, i'm NOT to say that gay unions should be forbidden. As long as they do not harm any third persons, people should be allowed to do whatever they please with their sexuality.

It's the "third persons" which is the key term in here. This is why I spoke against gay adoption in another forum (you'd have to do a full search to find it, since it was posted more than 2 months ago).

Now. The thing is, do people living in a gay union really need a paper allowing them other governmental favors just because they're living together?

And I ask, yes/no/ why?

 

Ok, but morals and religion are not inherently linked. You can be amoral while still being religious, and moral while being non-religious (or the opposites of course).

No, see the whole point I was trying to make was that rights which are not "necessary" can be valueable too...

Anyway...

From Article 16: Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

From Article 2: Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration...

I see no reason why gays should not be allowed marriage, as per the Declaration. Furthermore, if you disagree with this because Article 16 does not specifically say "regardless of sexuality" then I feel it should be ammended.

Oh, grow up. I attack arguments and weak logic, not people.

Good. Case closed.

Adoption and marriage are not linked, henceforth essentially irrelevant. However, I doubt having two gay parents will actually do more harm to a child than a heterosexual family would (especially considering the divorce rate).

Clearly, straight non-religious people do. Consider it a symbol of commitment. Furthermore, if their religion allows for gay marriages, they should be permitted that too.

 

Just a little sidenote here:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...20040111/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_gay_marriage_3

That's pretty cold. I don't think I'd ever talk to my dad again if I were gay and he supported a bill banning the marriage of me and someone I love.

 

I have now problem with gay and lesbian yada yada marraige yada yada stuff, but it just seems weird to me.

Its like eating a bowl of soup by putting the bowl with soup in it on top my head and dancing on a desk....oh well

but anyway look at the Greeks there is you bit of homework if you havent studied them already


sorry if the top misled you i meant that they should be able to get married etc.

 

Your comparison is a wee bit off. I'd liken it more to eating soup with a spork instead of a fork.

 

I believe that Gay people should have the right to get married. I am Bi-sexual and I would certainly never want to get denied my rights to marry the one I love. I don't understand why people freak out so much. Just let them marry whom ever they want to marry!! :dizzy2:

 

I think gay rights should be allowed because love is love.

Society is evolving, and not many people care about religion anymore. So why bring it up?

 

gays and lesbians..

Well, most of my friends are bysexuall or lesbians..I dont have a problem with them at all and if they are in love and want to get married then I guess let it be...Although it might be wrong for me saying this..but meh, if people that are in love then they should have a right to get married..but....then again..I still dont know....I love gay people! ...the hell with it..get married!

 

Majority rules with minority rights. The majority may be in power but they are supposed to give minorities rights. The majority tends to forget that. What seems funny to me is that Spain, a mainly catholic nation, allows gay marriage... How is it that our nation made up of many different people seems to squirm at the idea of doing the same? Gays and Lesbians are people too. I hate the south. Alabama can worry about antigay issues yet has problems funding the education system.

 

I read somewhere before that homosexuality is a nature's way to control population. Like, when there become too many wolfs on a one territory, they resort to homosexuality to reduce their population. Other animals do it too. Maybe, its the same with humans?

 

I think that if you want to marry someone you should be able to marry them, it doesn't matter if they are the same sex or not.

 

To me, gay marriages should be allowed. It's their lives, let them do with they want unless it harms others.

But actually the American Constitution gives them the right in two ways. The first one is because of the right for people to pursue happiness, as someone else here stated. The second way is "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." That means that everyone has the same right whether they are straight, gay, or would rather stay single for the rest of their life. The only way that gay marriages could not be allowed is if they don't allow any marriages or change the constitution. But then the first reason wouldn't allow that to happen because it wouldn't allow people to be happy.

I was gonna say something else here but now I forgot......

 

Gay lesbian rights

]I think that gay and lesbians should have rights as long as they don't try to focre their views on me an dtry to make me belive in there way of life.

 

possibly but we can't go and ask the animals why they are gay. everyones trying to find a reason for why people are gay... how about because THEY JUST ARE. i mean striaght people are striaght because THEY JUST ARE, even if they procreate in the process.

 

I really don't get people. I think that people that are gay or lesbian all are the same, so why should they be treated any differnt? Just because someone has a differnt partner than you that makes them so they can't be happy? To me it is just silly. Is it that people just gernerally want something to complaine about?

People need to have a more open mind and look at things from both sides. Are some people afraid that gay and lesbian people are going to stop the worlds population, well for one.. that would be a lot of stopping there and two if there were to have laws against gays then do you think they will all just turn straight and repoduce?

I think that why most people are against gays and lesbians is from the Bible, I am not going to say anything bad about it, but you have to think, not everyone follows the same thing as you, and you shouldn't force your belifes on other people, and when it affects other peoples life...well it just seems wrong to me.

 

If that were the case, then places like Canada, where our birth rate is declining to the point where we aren't regenerating our population, wouldn't need homosexuality. I really don't know what the origins, and the explanation for it is..

But as for decreasing population, I did hear from Sue Johansen (from Sex with Sue, as some here might know) that the intimate act homosexuals share with each other is rather dangerous.. it physically is not meant to happen due... I shouldn't go into details about that here. But, not like I'm going to force that research onto others.. but it's always good to know these things before doing them.

In terms of marriage, it has been a religious sacrament for a long time. For the government to go ahead and change the definition of marriage and change it's traditions.. Some consider it to be crossing the line between church and state.

But as for using the Bible as a means to justify harm to a group is something that I don't think Jesus would want anyways. You have to love and respect every person, even if you don't agree with their lifestyle. Look at how Christ was with Mary Magdalene, eh?

 

its only dangerous for men because it stretchs out certain places that aren't ment for things to go in, only to go out. and its also dangerous for heterosexsuals also who act out anal sex.

 

if you want to look into the bible more you'll also note that going agaisnt the will of god is also a Sin and if you think about it, isnt anyting natural the 'will of god'?
so by that logic being agaisnt gay marraige and such is sinning in itself