Saber Marionette Is Otaru A Pure Clone?

Discussion in 'Manga and Anime' started by BakaMattSu, Oct 5, 2001.

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  1. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    This is a question that sometimes surfaces when I'm discussing SMJ with people... And one I've pondered a few times on my own... Is Otaru a pure clone of Ieyasu Tokugawa?

    The whole thought is based on a few loose details:

    -Otaru closely resembles Ieyasu I (The one from the Mesopotamia flashbacks)
    -Lime, Cherry, and Bloodberry were created by Ieyasu similar to Faust's Saberdolls (which some argue means they should be attached to him...)
    -After Ieyasu dies, there were no plans to make a new clone (perhaps there already was one?)

    I kind of go back and forth on opinions, picking apart at them at times - but then second-guess myself...I don't know where I stand...

    What are your thoughts?

    -BakaMattSu I
     
    #1
    BakaMattSu, Oct 5, 2001
  2. Eldaeriam

    Eldaeriam New Member

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    Hmm those are very good points. Though otaru never actually runs Japoness and Ieyasu said he wanted someone to naturally take the marionettes.
     
    #2
    Eldaeriam, Oct 6, 2001
  3. MamiyaOtaru

    MamiyaOtaru President Bushman

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    I am of the opinion that yes, he is, though I can't cite any more reasons than the ones you gave above. Where is the next Ieyasu anyway?
     
    #3
    MamiyaOtaru, Oct 9, 2001
  4. That guy!

    That guy! Expecting Father

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    [​IMG]
    -Ieyasu the 16th(or is it 15th)

    So, I guess it means that Otaru is the heir to the throne to become Shogun of Japoness. I wonder if the Ieyasu had a story similar to Otaru's, except with Tamasaburo and Baiko. Although T and B don't have the Otome circuit...but they do have the pseudo-character program.
     
    #4
    That guy!, Oct 9, 2001
  5. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    Ieyasu, Tama, and Baiko?! (Kinda makes you take some scenes on an entirely new edge...)

    Actually, with the history of the Shogun and his marionettes, I find Razorclaw X's fanfic "Mister *****ly" really believable:

    http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/smj/*****ly.html

    Tho' Otaru never actually 'runs Japones', he does become a very respectable person around the country (see start eps of J to X...)

    And, yup, it is stated that Ieyasu wanted the marionettes to develop with someone naturally, but you can't help but wonder if there is some kind of underlying attraction between them and their creator....

    "Pure BakaMattSu"...

    [Edited to let readers know the censored bit is what Cinderella did with her finger on the spindle on her 16th birthday...]

    [This message has been edited by BakaMattSu (edited 10-11-2001).]
     
    #5
    BakaMattSu, Oct 9, 2001
  6. MamiyaOtaru

    MamiyaOtaru President Bushman

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    You and your dirty links.. the co cktail lounge comes to mind..

    It seems to me like no one runs Japoness in J to X, no reason why it couldn't be Otaru later on
     
    #6
    MamiyaOtaru, Oct 12, 2001
  7. Ciel

    Ciel Unoa Freak
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    hmmm... intersting points about Otaru. I know it was an intrique for me when I first started dwatching the series, I hoped Otaru was Ieyasu's pure clone, because why else would the original Ieyasu look excatly like Otaru? and it was a shock to find a huge bald man as Ieyasu, cuz I can't see Otaru turning into that, and that makes me scared. As well, Lime called the Shogun 'Grandpa' or something so there wasn't much attachment for the Shogun. yes, Faust did create the saberdolls, but look at Marine for an example.
    Marine: She wasn't drawn to her maker, her maker wanted to destroy her. She was drawn to someone who took care of her and who cared for her as well. That being Lime, of course. (original thought of Marine)

    In the case of the Saber dolls, Tigel knew Faust before he changed (due to some brainwashing **** or shock therapy :p) So she recalled the one who loved her from before. She cared for him. The other two had a man who they could belong to. No one else wanted them the way..cough Faust did.

    what am I talking aboot?
    I think I'm saying it doesn't matter who created them, the dolls go to the ones they love. because they love. it wouldn't be much of an otome circuit if they were 100% guaranteed they'd be drawn to the pure clone who made them.


    ranting..just ranting...
     
    #7
    Ciel, Oct 12, 2001
  8. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    Very interesting points... it appears my "attraction theory" has been disproven...

    An additional point to bring up may be that Marine's actual "Master" was the sea itself...explaining her attraction to return there, and her undying love for it...I think the bonding with Lime was a long for companionship sort of thing...

    BakaMattSu, more dirty links, as they develop...
     
    #8
    BakaMattSu, Oct 12, 2001
  9. InuYasha

    InuYasha New Member

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    Here's a thought...

    Why were the clones in ep. 8 of J to X so closely guarded? That would seem to suggest that they're pure clones that are candidates to become the 16th Shogun Ieyasu,right? So,what happens to the one's that don't make the cut?

    Feel free to point out any flaws in my line of speculation... [​IMG]

    Oh,and Matt,wasn't it Sleeping Beauty that did the nasty to her finger on the day in question?

    ------------------
    Inuyasha ha brand sponsor no teikyou de
    okuri-shimashita!!

    [This message has been edited by InuYasha (edited 11-17-2001).]
     
    #9
    InuYasha, Nov 17, 2001
  10. InuYasha

    InuYasha New Member

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    Unfortunately,it seems that censoring the link "kills" it (i.e.,makes it a dead link).

    InuYasha - "Oh my god,they killed the link!" "You *******s!"
     
    #10
    InuYasha, Nov 17, 2001
  11. Ciel

    Ciel Unoa Freak
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    lol.. it would seem, as what I got out of it, that they were the first batch of FEMALE clones, so of course they would be closely guarded, but it would be scary if one of the females became the next Shogun big guy. but a female couldn't be Ieyasu. *shudder*
     
    #11
    Ciel, Nov 17, 2001
  12. InuYasha

    InuYasha New Member

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    Are you absolutely sure that the clones were female? Remember that the one Cherry found WAS male (cf.,the scene where she changes its diaper).

    Cherry:Oh my,you ARE a boy,aren't you? [​IMG]

    InuYasha - scarred for life by seeing Kotaru's "equipment"


    [This message has been edited by InuYasha (edited 11-17-2001).]
     
    #12
    InuYasha, Nov 18, 2001
  13. InuYasha

    InuYasha New Member

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    Maybe I should've made myself clearer...When I referred to the clones in ep. 8 of J to X,I was referring to the ones that were being transported by the government vehicle - the one that got swept off the road in the rainstorm. Certainly,they were important enough to search for,even if not guarded as closely as the female clones.
     
    #13
    InuYasha, Nov 18, 2001
  14. InuYasha

    InuYasha New Member

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    My impression was that there was only one initial batch of female clones,the ones we see in J Again in the very early stages of development. This means that they wouldn't be available until close to the end of J to X,assuming that the cloning technology on Terra 2 follows with current biotech knowledge regarding cloning (i.e., none of the "force-growth" cloning sometimes seen in sci-fi).
     
    #14
    InuYasha, Nov 18, 2001
  15. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    First off, it's about time SOMEBODY said something in reference to the Sleeping Beauty/Cinderella faux paus!

    Then, to your interesting question, it makes me wonder why so many clones were created in the first place if they were all Ieyasu's clones... rather, I would think they are "normal" clones. Of course, due to moral implications, I would think that each country's government would regulate the creation and raising of early clones...

    BakaMattSu, glad you've got so much to say!
     
    #15
    BakaMattSu, Nov 18, 2001
  16. That guy!

    That guy! Expecting Father

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    I remember Lorelei saying that they were strerilized male clones. This kinda makes you wonder if all of the males are sterile, including Otaru.

    By the by, that episode was awesome. It really showed that Cherry has the maternal otome circuit.
     
    #16
    That guy!, Nov 18, 2001
  17. InuYasha

    InuYasha New Member

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    If they were "normal" clones,then why would they resemble Ieyasu I,as Otaru does?

    InuYasha - thinks that this discussion will help his SMJ shrine...
     
    #17
    InuYasha, Nov 18, 2001
  18. BakaMattSu

    BakaMattSu ^__^
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    Hmmm, come to think of it - yeah. Why bother sterilizing anyway? Maybe to remove sexual tension?

    BakaMattSu, very curious indeed....at least the clones weren't numbered (then we'd be back in the Mesopotamian pickle once more..)

    [This message has been edited by BakaMattSu (edited 11-18-2001).]
     
    #18
    BakaMattSu, Nov 19, 2001
  19. Ciel

    Ciel Unoa Freak
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    gomen, I just watch the shows for the shows... sad if they were sterilized...
     
    #19
    Ciel, Nov 19, 2001
  20. MamiyaOtaru

    MamiyaOtaru President Bushman

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    I would imagine they guard all clones carefully, I'm thinking they have somewhat of a respect for life there. Also, making them is prolly expensive, and since it is necessary for the country's survival, they guard them closely, quite an investment.

    Long way of saying I don't think they were necessarily pure Ieyasu clones. Still leaning towards Otaru, though you'd think he'd have to find out about it sooner or later.
     
    #20
    MamiyaOtaru, Nov 20, 2001
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