Debate Police Officers- uphold the law or above the law?

Let the Learning Begin: Pt 2

Cops won’t turn on their lights unless they have to. It’s inherently dangerous for a cop to flash his red and blues. When people see them they tend to go stupid and do dumbass things that only cause more problems. How many times have you seen a moron on the road do stupid ass things when an ambulance was screaming to get through?

Then there are times when they don’t turn their lights on for various reasons. To the average person they’re simply speeding around because they’re cops- they’re above the law, right?

Wrong. The guy I was with said that they got a call about a stolen vehicle. Apparently the woman had found her stolen car in someone else’s driveway with someone behind the wheel. In this case he didn’t want to turn his lights on because

#1: It’s a hazard for him to turn his lights on. People are stupid and he doesn’t want anyone to do anything that would cause an accident.

#2: He didn’t want the man in the driveway to hear him coming. If your car was stolen and the person who stole it was sitting in a driveway wouldn’t you want the police to get to him as fast as possible? If he turned his lights on the man would have heard him coming from a long way off and jetted out of there.

The average person doesn’t always realize these kinds of situations exist. All they ever see is the speeding cop car. They won’t turn their lights on for bank robberies, hostage situations, or other incidents where they don’t want the perps to know they’re coming. They’re not above the law, they’re simply enforcing it. If you see one coming up on your tail without their lights on, get the hell out of the way. They’re trying to do their job.

Of course there are people who’d abuse that right an officer has, but those ones are usually weeded out in a timely manner. Formal reprimands and suspensions are common for cops who abuse their rights.

It’s not the police’s fault. It’s who ever called you in. The cops are just doing their job. Blame the morons who fingered you, not the officers who are doing what they’re paid to do.

Only Officers of the Law on duty or emergency vehicles can do that. A health inspector is not a police officer. He’s abusing his lights for whatever reason. I’m not sure why he even HAS lights.


More than once you guys keep saying that cops go out of their way to avoid stopping at red lights and run them with their lights. Does anyone else see the problem with this statement?

THEY’RE STILL RUNNING A RED LIGHT. THEY’RE STILL PUTTING THEMSELVES AT RISK FOR A MAJOR TRAFFIC ACCIDENT AND POSSIBLY DEATH.

They wouldn’t put their lives in danger unless they had a good reason too. Running a red, with lights or not, is a stupid thing to do regardless of who you are.

Then it’s up to the older, more senior police officers who train the new guys to do their job and train them that they are not above the law in any way. They purposefully place them in situations where the nubs are in a tight spot in order to give them the experience and the training they need to do their job with confidence.

If you get ticketed for a stupid reason like a dangling object in your rearview mirror or your window tinting is too dark most of the time it’s because the more senior guys are training the younger guys just how to go about doing their job. Most cops wont give you a ticket for something that retarded unless they pull you over for something else and you piss them off by being an a**hole.

You have to realize that when a cop pulls you over you are under arrest. As long as you’re calm, collected and courteous they wont slam you for anything other than what they pulled you over for, unless they’re behind their quota for one reason or another. Most of the time as long as you’re not a dumbass and ask the officer what exactly you did wrong they’ll tell you what you did to break the law and sometimes cut you some slack.

They’re just doing their job.

~W

 

People think they are “under arrest” that is why people flee that is what is wrong with this picture. We shouldn’t have the mentality of your “under arrest.”

People who have warrants or know that they did something wrong will flee. I am talking about serious wrong doings examples driving without a license, permit driving, and etc. I will admit some will do it because they were scared it happens.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Police-P...s/2004/11/05/1099547388745.html?oneclick=true

Example.
“Laura McGrath, 18, did the right thing and pulled over when she heard police sirens. A 15-year-old in a stolen car chased by police ploughed into the South Coast teenager.”

There are countless others were people did the “right thing and pulled over.” They still died.

Of course they should feel something and hopefully they don’t get off on that type of thing.

I believe it was partially the police officers fault. Cause and effect are a factor here. They had to pursue the criminal and by doing so an innocent person was killed. They pursue that person until they stop wither crashing the vehicle driven or the car actually stopping. My understanding they do it to serve and protect. When does to serve and protect go too far? Vehicles are the deadliest transportation on the road today. Why would you want to play chicken?

Sometimes the police cars are the cause of the accidents. Why can’t they go up for manslaughter?

If anything laws need to be changed. They know the car they have the description of the driver. Why continue to pursue?

“The fleeing person is upset and hopefully confused. “The fleeing man said later: "I was accelerating the whole time as I was getting chased ... I kept going faster and faster because the police kept going faster and faster so I kept going to get away from them."”
Taken from same article.

Again I believe too much power. People will abuse power.

I have to agree. But they use the lack of our knowledge against us. Do you think any of them would tell us “you match the description of a suspect and we would like to search you but you have he right to say no?” Now that makes me wonder when they suspect something too. Like beer on minors breathe whiling in a car. Can they search it? I heard everything but the trunk as long as you can’t access it.

Plenty and I have seen cops do dumbass things like throw on their lights to avoid stopping at a stoplight. It happens.

It is considered entrapment when they do it. They need to be seen. That person could have gotten away with it if they used it right. During the day it could be a little sketchy on this though. Laws are tricky. Entrapment is a big thing at night especially when they need to have their lights on (front lights). If they don’t and pull you over it is called entrapment.

Then cops shouldn’t expect people to move out of their way without their lights on. Their lights and sounds signal motor vehicles to get out of their way. Speeding is one thing. Turning on their lights to go threw a red-light is another. It is just a short time when they do this.

Or they learn not to get caught. Great liars are made when they get caught.

I would have to agree. Technically they didn’t have the right to search you. At least right now you know. But if you let them and nothing was wrong defamation of character.

He doesn’t have lights. He ran lights. You missed understood.

Amen. But it still happens.

No matter how much training a cop gets it could still happens. It has more to do with the person I believe. Their morals and etc.

Or they say you are “arguing” and then they go into “yelling.” Half those small charges you can get out of it anyway. As long as you are smart.


This whole idea started after my sister got into an accident with a cop. The cop was going on to a high speed chase. She was turning and heard the lights. She was in the middle of the road. She decided to finish and get out of cops way. The cop went around her on her right. He said there was another car on her left. He didn’t give a good enough description on that. Anyway she got failure to yield. She is fighting it. The street where she was at is right before a busy street. He shouldn’t have gone around her due to the fact of the possibility of oncoming traffic. There are 2 parking lots one is on each side of the street and traffic could have come out off of the busy street intersection. They reported saying something in the newspaper saying she struck them. The damage was on her side. So they hit her. No one drives with their side unless sliding. But there was no way she knows how or could. It just made me think of what else police do wrong.

 

It was hard for me to figure out why you were so adamantly against the police until I saw your last paragraph.

Regardless I still stand with what I posted.

Why not? You just broke the law. You willfully disregarded the written law and chose to speed, turn illegally or what have you. Lawbreakers should be placed under arrest, ya?

That is, unless, you're playing favorites. This person SHOULD go, but this person shouldn't because he broke THIS law and this person broke THIS law.

And if you AREN'T being placed under arrest when you see those lights why the hell would you stop? Would you really pull over if a police car's flashing lights meant "Please pull over to the side of the road so that I can charge you $200. I would appreciate it very much if you did."

Hell no. You'd just keep on going. Who wants to throw $200 out the window for no good reason.

Besides, it doesn't matter what mentality you have it doesn't change the fact that when you see flashing red and blue you're still technically under arrest. People flee because they're hiding something that they don’t want the cops to discover, not because they're afraid of a speeding ticket. People run from the cops because they're afraid the police will find something more serious that they're hiding.

How DARE you use my weakness with children against me!!

As much as I feel for the families in that article there was only one instance where the police officers themselves were the ones who hit the innocent bystanders. If it's the cops who are plowing into people that's another matter entirely.

You're preaching like all cops should never pursue a criminal or ever engage in a high speed chase.

So if I went to your home set it on fire and killed everyone inside, got into my car and drove off the police should not pursue me? I'm racing along at over 100 mph because I'm trying to get away from the scene of the accident. I guess the police should simply not chase after me, because I may plow into more innocent people.

They should use helicopters instead. Not counting the departments who DONT have helicopter support, the cops climb into their helo and chase me on the highway in their chopper. Does that mean I'm going to go any slower? Not really, I want to get away from that chopper. There are no longer any police cars chasing me because it's too dangerous.

Oh crap, I get into an accident or I run out of gas. There's no cops on the road following me (it's too dangerous) so I get out of my car and hold up a family in a minivan at gun point. Let's say I'm high on PCP as well. *Bam* *Bam* *Bam*, I kill everyone in the car and take off again, there's no reason for me to stop. Now you have the lives of the family in that van on your conscience. The police STILL can’t stop me because they can't pursue. Because of what you said above I don't even have to pull over when I see their lights because they're simply ASKING ME to politely pull over- those lights aren't an order to stop.

This repeats as I continue to drive, killing more and more bystanders, and when I run out of gas I simply go to another car, slaughter and move on. Eventually I'll tire out and when I do I crash, hurting even more innocent civilians. But it's Ok, the police never pursued me because it was too dangerous.

Let's say that I don't take over a minivan when I ran out of gas. I hot foot it off the highway and vanish into suburbia. The cops are no where near me because they cannot pursue me, so I'm gone, free to vandalize and kill another home and it's family at my own discretion.

Do you see what I'm getting at? You can't blame the cops because the cops aren't the ones causing the pursuits. It's the morons who are trying to run from them. The cops are following behind as quickly as the runner is driving. As he speeds up the cops are forced to speed up. Do you want them to stop the chase because it might be dangerous? Let's go ahead and let that man who killed your family get away because there's a chance that an accident may result in the chase.

NOW, if the police THEMSELVES (i.e. a police car) slams into another vehicle killing its occupants, then the officer DRIVING THE CAR should be the one at fault and should be dealt with the same as any other. Unlike the average runner a police officer has training dealing with high-speed pursuits, and SHOULD BE held accountable for his actions THE SAME AS THE GUY, RUNNING FROM THE COPS, WHO SLAMS INTO THE BACK OF SOMEONE ELSE.

Now you know and your excuse falls apart. The law books are available for the public to read. It's not the jobs of the law enforcement agency to teach you about your rights, especially if you are an individual who might pose a hazardous threat to the community. It’s up to the individual to learn about his rights for himself. Why should the government pay to teach you about something you don't care about enough to go learn about on your own?

So the man who wanders onto a school yard, rapes and kills three kids should not be able to be stopped and placed under arrest by the police? We should release all the felons in the prison system because the cops who work there have too much power? Listen to your argument.

What? Who's side are you on? The cops keep their lights and sirens off because THIS MAN HAS ALREADY BROKEN THE LAW AND THEY WANT TO CATCH HIM. There's no Entrapment involved at all. The cops aren't baiting him into breaking the law, he's already done it. When I say lights and sirens i mean the ones on the roof. What on earth are you talking about?

So are politicians, what's your point. Corruption exists everywhere. It's unfair to blame just the police because they're just like every other political power in the world. You have good guys and you have bad guys.

She hit him while merging. Legally she was at fault. It's not a matter of the cops being corrupt or acting above the law. They were in pursuit and she pulled into traffic and as a result struck an officer's car while in the process of changing lanes. The law states you have to try to do everything in your power to avoid getting into an accident, even if that means waiting for the semi that's in your way to move or to slowly creep forward and view up and down the road before you merged into traffic. If she was paying attention she would have seen the cars approaching, or heard the sirens and would have held back instead of turning. Rather she was caught in the middle of merging into traffic, which means that either the cop cars and the man speeding were traveling at over the speed of sound (to go from not being visible down the road at that corner to colliding with her as she was in the middle of her turn a few seconds later) or she wasn't paying attention like she should have been when she started the turn. Either that or she was turning into the street right at a steep bend in the road, which would be the only way she would not be able to see the police coming.

I'm not against you Basher, it's just that some of the things you're saying are ridiculous. The police are out to protect you, not to bend you over a table at whim. The laws in effect are voted in by people the same as you and me and the police are sworn to uphold them. By stripping the police of their rights to pursue criminals we effectively render them useless.

My sympathies to those who have lost their lives as a result of a police chase.

~W

 

What bothers me, is how people complain about things that do them good. Yes, Basher, the police make mistakes, they aren't always right. Hell, last year our police department had a huge scandal, and it's still being dealt with. They lost their chief and are having a lot of problems right now.

Read about it here

Huge scandals aside, the police do their jobs with intent to protect us. They try their best, and make their best judgements based on what is best not only for the public, but for the criminal they're chasing. Their intent is nothing but good.

So why are we complaining about them? Why are we moaning about a system that's in place for our own good? Before you start complaining about anything, you should try to appreciate what it's there for, no? Certainly they make mistakes, but does that make them unforgiveably evil?

I don't know how the law works over there, but around here, if you hear the sirens, it is against the law not to yield. This means stopping, and making sure you're not in their way. Now, from this story, I can certainly understand her point of view. She was in the middle of a turn, and she thought she was already in the way, right? Ok, so, instead of a stationary obstacle, let's make a moving one so the police have a harder time getting around her. I think it is indeed her who is at fault there. By continuing to turn, she put herself in the way of the police, forcing him to react and attempt to get around her. Ok, you say he shouldn't have gone around her. He's already at a much higher speed than she is, so if he doesn't, his only other option is to slam into the back of her. Fun, isn't it?

Turning in traffic is something I've watched many people do unsafely. They pull right into the middle of the road waiting for an opening, without thinking about how unsafe it is. Because the people behind you are going to pull up closer, you won't be able to back up, you're in the middle of an intersection, and the only way you can get out is to complete your turn. That practically spells unsafe, to me.

ANYWAY. The whole point of this, is to say that although they aren't perfect, the police are necessary, and people should try to understand why before they start to complain about them. As far as whether they should be allowed to go above the law, of course not all the time. They should be held just as accountable as everyone else, except, they should be allowed to go to whatever lengths are necessary to protect the public, and to catch criminals. If this means speeding through a red light because the guy they're chasing also sped through it, then so be it. If this means shooting the guy who's holding a gun, real or no, because he's shown no intention of putting it down, and no reason not to believe he'll use it, that's fine.

Which reminds me, awhile ago, a kid was arrested and *almost shot* because he refused to put down his toy gun when the police ordered him to. They had no reason to believe it wasn't a real gun, it looked almost exactly like the model the police use. As far as they could tell, he was a threat, so they had to take the necessary measures to stop him.

It makes me think of nothing but the stupidity of some people.

 

And then compare the percentage of civilians that run red light to the percentage of police that run red lights...
If the police departments are doing such a terrible job and the people are so discontent, then why haven't the people done anything about it? You have a voice, so speak up. If things are not changing then either it isn't as bad as people say it is, people could care less, or there is something wrong with our system of (representative) democracy.
Anywho, what is this so called "entrapment"? The place in which it is used confuses me for it does not seem that it is in the proper context.
...and then compare the number of people who get killed doing the right thing to the number of people who get killed by not pulling over for a police car. Oh and I couldn't see the lovely news paper because you have to have a subscription. =(

 

Entrapment: the action of luring an individual into committing a crime in order to prosecute the person for it

That's mucho illegal, I ber-lieve.

Thats not really an excuse. There's so many new papers online it's not even funny. The news is all around, you just have to seek it out.

...And I quote you with impunity... AGAIN!!

~W

 

if your by yourself yes they may be after yu or going to a crime scene or if your with others they maybe after aother person so you should pull over any ways ro make sure

 

I think that they are above the law.
They use their 'power' more than needed.(not always the case though).
I don't have too much of a problem with that here in England because the police here are poncy little liberals; they will, at worst, give you a slap on the wrist and tell you not to do whatever you did again, I have got to say, law today is quite pathetic!!

 

most cops think they are above the law while most citizen think they are above the law examp most people break the law are willing and knowingly that they are breaking the law all the time when they are doing it

also this is from my dads experrence when he was stationed in japan he and I belive the japanese police were chaseing a kid in a pursuit. the kid thought it was fun to have the cops chase him after a while the cops gave up. A little while later the same kid saw a cop turn he's lites on and went to make a turn to another call in he was never after the kid. But the kid sped up and crashed into a wall killing himself an dthe mother saiud it was the cops fault that her son died which it was not.

 

people do it for the thrill, strangely enough, plenty of retards out there though, who do it because they think they can get away with it, and that was a prime cut example.

 

The In-efficiency of The Police Force

Whats happening in todays world? We used to be able to depend on the police for safety and protection but now they tend to protect the criminal more than the victim or they just don't show up. As said by a friend of my younger brothers, "You'd be better off to call the fire department. At least they'd show up." My grandfather once caught a man trying to steal his car. My grandfather held the man face first on the ground with his 41 mag. (a pistol for all you non-gun ppls) while my grandmother called the police. The dispatcher took down all the information needed and assured them that a sheriff was on his way. 10 minutes later the phone rang. It was the sherriffs department asking them if they still needed a cop out there. Hello! If thats not a wake-up call for you then I don't know what is. I know I personally wouldn't want to be holding a stranger, who was drunk out of his mind, with my 4 children inside the house, waiting for the police to show up. I'd appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this matter and if you have any stories that may or may not help us to understand where you're coming from feel free to add them. Thanx

 

Last time I called the police, it was a non-urgent matter, and I was told that they had had a very busy night, and I should try to come into one of their stations the next day.

However, I still believe they are the best people to rely on, and that you should trust them to dole out justice before yourself. It's not your place, and it could cause more trouble for you than you would think.

I don't believe this to be the fault of the police themselves. I blame those people who have nothing better to do with their time but create trouble, who cause problems for little reason other than having had too much to drink, or just for the hell of it. I blame the criminals for using their time.

 

Meh the police are no longer police,there people thinking they can make a difference in a world were you need more than them.What we need is a PUBLIC EFFORT!!! Stop relying on the police to do everything for you and for protection.You have legs and arms right, get out there and help them! If you see a police officer fighting a suspect, go help him. If he says "Stay back I got it".....who cares just help. I have talked to police and alot of them say "It would be nice if the public would help"! Most police however I find are Jerks, they have authority and use it a bit to leaniently, And its the publics job to keep the police in check. I do not need the police however, I beileve in taking care of things myself....not having them do my work for me.

 

If you think that's bad up where you're at, come down here to GA, its bad.

Spoiler: Not for the weakhearted and you may just get very mad

When my mother first came down here to live with her first husband, a few weeks after she came, she was driving down a road at night or I think it was day, I can't remember. There was a police officer on one side of the road and out of nowhere, a black naked man and I mean fully naked, ran down the street toward the cop that was outside his car. We never found out what was wrong with the guy but the guy was on his knees in front of the cop, pulling on his pant leg. The man was crying his eyes out, seemed in pain and he was asking the cop to kill him. I'm not making this up either, this really happened. The man asked him and guess what the cop did...he pulled out his gun and shot the man right through the head.

A lot of you guys will think that's it a bit to violent but that's why I put it in a spoiler.

Spoiler: My opinion

After I heard about that, I was mad as hell. From what I think and a lot of other people think this, the police are nothing but power hungry people. But that's not true in a few cases. I've in fact, meet a few really true blue police men that will do everything to protect you and will not harm you for anything. If they aren't police men then no one is one.

The cop that shot the man, the thing really crazy about it is that he got away with it. He didn't get arrested, he didn't go to a trial, all they did was review the topic and closed it. That man never got charged with anything what so ever. I find that f*cking crazy if you ask me.

Of all the police men in the world, there are only a few really true blue police men that will do everything he/she can to help you and will not harm you. The others are just power hungry people because once you're a cop, you have the right to carry a gun and you have the right to kill people but that is different in states but down here, they do have the right to kill people.

Reisti, if you really do think that police can be relyed on where you're at, then you're in a very good place to live because down here, they don't give a f*ck.

 

I do agree with Lance, there are some real true blue police out there, but there are very few. My father was in a vehicle sitting in the back, and he got yelled at just because the cop didn't like the way his seat belt was positioned across his chest! My aunt had a run in with a cop and she ended up telling them that if they didn't cut the bullsh** she was gonna take them to court. I don't know where your livin Reisti, but I sure as hell would love to be there.
" Meh the police are no longer police,there people thinking they can make a difference in a world were you need more than them." I also agree with my brother that the police no longer are the respectable men and women they once were. I mean I just saw on the news that a police officer's night job was a hooker. And just look at what happened down it GA with Lance. Thats absolutely ridiculous. He didn't even question the man as to what was wrong, what had happened or why he was completely unclothed. Society is going all to hell the people are standng by saying, "Look whats happening to our society! Why isn't anyone doing anything to help?" Hello! If we want things to get better, than we have to give all we can towards it and work our asses off to help. My cousin and I once called in on a man that we watched strangling his son, and just as the man and his family were leaving a truck pulled in. We told them not to allow the man to leave, and that we needed them to block the drive until the police showed up. When they finally did arrive, they asked a few questions and then said, "Oh well we can't do anything cause there's no actual proof that he touched the kid, the family said nothing happened, and we can't use your testimonies because your under 18. If the police want help they have to start trusting the ones who call and report the incidents cause if they don't everythings gonna eventually just escalate to the point where gangs will run freely down our streets and invade little towns like mine and god knowing the way things are now, our police will be part of the gangs.

 

I'm sorry, but you can't judge every cop in the world based on the actions of a group of cops in your area. That's like saying every girl out there is a ditsy sl*t who just wants action. Are there lots of girls out there like that? Yes. Does that mean every girl out there is a wh***? No.

I've seen my share of good cops and bad cops. Maybe all the cops are evil corrupt people where you live, and for that I feel sorry for you, but don't throw all cops into the same bowl.

 

I didn't say that all cops were bad. There are very few good cops where I live but the rest here are just right down...evil. As for the rest of the world, I only know what you've all told me, where Reisti lives is good from what he said and where inuyasharules14 lives seems just like my. I'm not saying all cops are evil. If you live in a place that has some really good true blue cops there, then you're living in a better place than where I'm at. Sure, its not all bad, there are some good things about Athens, GA, but still. If there were some good cops here, it would be a lot better.

 

This looks very familiar to this thread... but I'll post until BB gives her final verdict.

It's not very often that I call BS on something but, yeah, I need to see a news article or something before I believe that a police officer put a bullet through a troubled man's head in broad daylight without so much as a second thought or, even more unbelievably, nothing happened to him.

To call the police out like this is going to draw some skewed points of views. All most people ever remember about the police are negative things. All they ever remember is the flack they take during speeding tickets or when an over taxed police force is called to respond to an emergency.

Everyone who calls thinks that thier issue is an emergency. 99% of the time they are, however the police can't respond to everyone's emergency as soon as they call, especially if they are a smaller force in a larger town.

Inuyasha, I'll stake money that when your dad had that thief at gunpoint, the police were busy with a dozen other calls. It's wasn't like there was a cop running radar somewhere who didn't want to go out and kick some criminal *ss. The reason they became police officers was to take people to jail- that's one of the coolest things they can do. Only the police can detain people against thier will, no one else has that authority. Taking some guy who got caught stealing a car to jail would have been something they would have immediately responded to, unless they had something else more urgent they needed to take care of. They can only take one call at a time.

Well, what did you want them to do? Arrest the Dad anyway? If there's no marks on the kid, or signs of struggle, the family said everything was fine, and your testimony was invalid because of your age, then there's nothing for them to do. Arresting him wouldn't have done any good because without evidence they can only be held for 48 hours. The police can only do so much within thier power. They're not superheroes.

~W

 

Actually, I was talking more to inuyasharules14.

I'm not blind to cops who are corrupt, and I REALLY want them to be flushed out. I just get flustered when people (like wert said) only see the bad that some cops do. There are cops out there who give their lives to protect the innocent and uphold the law, and yet many people tend to focus on only the bad ones (this isnt specifically directed at you).