Debate Save others at the cost of a life?

No, i will not kill the innocent person to save thieves, wife beaters and murderers... Why should an innocent party die to save people who should be locked away? Thats just plain wrong. Plus, if the desease affects only really bad people then maybe the god send the deasease to punish them for their sins?

 

i would rather sacrifice the million people lol... to many people on the earth anyway. to hell With them!

just kidding/ i think..

im not really a people person, but i would sacrafice the one person for the million. only if the one person is willing.

 

what if someone u knew and loved and cared a great deal about was affected though? there are a lot more people who steal out there than u know (since this disease affects thieves)....most of them are 'good people' who u wouldnt suspect and most of them wouldnt even admit to it. even poor people who need to steal food to survive would be affected. with this in mind youre looking at an even greater percentage of the population....a much greater percentage...maybe even half the world....now how do u feel about sacrificing a party of 'innocent people' (cuz no one is really innocent) to save these hooooooorrible sinful people?

 

i disapprove of stealing, but if u r a hungry person and stole bread to eat i wouldnt call u a thief. But i stand by what i said, i will not kill innocent people even if it would save someone i love.

 

But is it right to let a larger amount of "bad" people die? Especially since they have families too? Is it right to keep one person alive at the cost of a million?

 

Exactly. Perhaps you've misunderstood the true scope of this. As Cherrygirl said, you're probably talking about half the world here. Or more.

So the question really is, would you sacrifice one (supposedly) greater life to save at least 3 billion lives? Yes, this goes a bit beyind the original question. What was it? 1 million? That's still more than my entire city! (Including surrounding annexed towns, Edmonton only has about 800,000 people living in it. You'd let the entire city, and more, die, simply because you don't want to kill someone? That seems over-the-top, to say the least.

 

History teaches us that yes this is the better solution. I got to admit it is. No matter how “bad” people are they are still human. Some movies and shows should have taught you that. The Sentinels on X-men for example they concluded that mutants were also humans. Bad people are human too. No matter what they have done. They could be rehabilitated but honestly who cares still human. So is that other person. But 1 life for a 1 million life should be worth it.

This is where it gets hard. Who are we to play god? I would say maybe 500,000. That is just half. 1 for 2.

I have a question what if that person was supposed to do great things like be president or save millions of lives then would it be worth it?

 

Ah, and that's where it starts getting tricky. You wouldn't kill a good doctor, for example, because they can save many lives as well (this is assuming you're killing multiple innocents. If you only need one, it'd be preferable to find another one, but in a pinch...). However, you can't look at everyone and say "Well what if THIS kid end up doing something really spectacular in 40 years?" The simple fact of the matter is, percentile wise, most people will not be remembered in the history books.

Assuming you meant you could somehow tell what the kid would do later in life, I'd imagine you'd try to steer away from those meant for extremely important things, but not every good person is going to end up the next Ghandi or Martin Luther King.

 

They could become the next Hitler, but it would be illogical to judge their worthiness of being sacrificed through an assumption of who they may become.

I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent..

The ones who would be sacrificed are the poor and disabled and criminals, and others who aren't viewed as important ability wise. The ones who aren't efficient economically. And yeah, a doctor wouldn't be sacrificed.

Going away from the fantasy land set out, this is something that wouldn't be allowed in America where the law is (supposedly) egalitarian - Under the United States Declaration of Independence "'all men are created equal' the state is under an obligation to treat each person equally under the law" (Wikipedia, "Egalitarianism"). And then there's Article 7 of the UN's Universiversal Declaration of Human Rights - "All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination" (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html).

So, it wouldn't be something people are forced into. They would have to do this willingly.

 

IIRC I said they were willing.

 

I honestly wouldn't want to be a volunter. I have a child to look after. And there is always Canada.

I don't know. Some people you can tell have a knack for things and will be great at it, depending on what it is. It would honestly be hard to choose people. If some guy you didn't know came up to you and said "I need you to help save 1 million people but you will die and the people you will save did horrible things." Would you actually do it? I wouldn't. If he touched me I would clock him one. So the doctor would have to be someone you know and trusted.

 

half the world? i dont think so. vast majority of us never killed, robbed or raped. And, no, i will not kill a good member of society to save many bad people. Face it, even if they would be saved, they still have to be inprisoned for their crimes. So the prisons will be pact with all the saved criminals and taxpayers will have to work really hard to feed them. Plus, when after serving their term in jail, those criminals will be alowed to go free . So, really its not worth sacrificing 1-500000 good people to save alot of bad people.

 

Pfft. *snip*

They are still human. No matter what they have done. So you would honestly not save people for the crimes they have done? Everyone has lied isn't that a small crime? There are also people who can't help it. They are mentally sick. Would you let them die even though they didn't know what they did? Plus they have families. Good people. Would you let them sufer to save one person? Hopefully not.

You most not understand taxes to well. Must be going off your parents view or some other adult. Yes those that work do pay to house criminals that are not put to death. But we actually pay to keep them there for as long as justice will allow is a better way to say it. I would gladily help pay to keep a child molestar in jail to serve his or her time even if it just for a few years. In those years that person couldn't do that so to me that is worth it. A murder couldn't kill, a theif couldn't steal, and etc.

 

BUT, when child molester gets out of jail he might move in right next door to you. How would you feel about it? Would you be happy? would you feel safe? Plus, child molesters actually can never stop fantasising about children, their interest always remain with children. What if he will take interest in your child and molests again? :sad: Many criminals, after serving their term, return back into the crime world. How would you feel if some maniac, after serving 25 years in jail for torturing and killing someone, became your neighbour? Face it, they have to live somewhere!

 

Hmmmm, I would let the bad people die. They may be people, but if they have fallen so far into beating, raping, killing, then they deserve no pity or cure. 1,000,000 is SMALL amount of bad people, compared to how many live.
Not only will letting them die help prevent further crimes in the future, but it could probably wipe out all crime together. It would help the overpopulated ecosystem, and we would not long have to have great numbers of jails/prisons.

Sure, some say they are human and should be saved. But why? They may be human, but if all they do is cause pain and do sinful deeds they should not be saved.

Take into consideration that Hitler MAY have been insane, there are many rumors floating around that he was a pill-popper as well. Also, Hitler never always hated Jews. It is said by some that he had a rough childhood, joined WWI, and after that he went to a art school and the jews who ran it denied him.

He not only killed Jews either, gypsies, Jehovas Witnesses, retarded people, cripples, etc. He killed over 100+ million people and called it for the greater good? All the people were good and most likely were saintly in a way.

Bah, I am starting to confuse myself......

 

But when their familes demand reparation for your doing nothing while their loved ones died?

His childhood wasn't the happiest, but I wouldn't call it altogether "rough." Even knowing about the "toga boy" incident. He tried to join the art school before WWI. It was a school in Vienna, and yes, it was a Jew who rejected him. That was the very beginning. In World War II, he got blinded temporarily by mustard gas, and, while recuperating in hospital, shortly after he got his sight back, he heard that Germany had surrendered. The psychic trauma there caused him to lose his sight again. (At the time, Jews were being blamed for a lot) and Hitler blamed Germany's surrender on the Jews. From there it grew and grew.

As far as I know, he was not a pill-popper. By the late stages of World War II, though, he was a very sick man, and I believe he was put on some heavy medication. But there's no record of him ever abusing drugs.

He saw them as threats to the German society. That's of course, no excuse, but in his mind, he was killing them all for the "greater good."

Much like you are.

 

Unlike Hitler I am not killing innocent people who were caught up in all his greater good, perfect human crap. They did nothing to deserve the fate set before them. The sinful have. Demand reparation for what? For losing their loved ones who murdered, beat, raped people. Those who want reparation just want money because they are greedy, most wouldn't even care what happened as long as the have money in their wallet. If they love their husband/wife going around doing sinful deeds then there messed up in the head.

 

Hitler didn't see them as innocent. He saw them as evil criminals who would degenerate the German race and undermine the strength of the nation.
So, his perception of the people he killed, and your perception of the people you would now kill, are nearly the same.

Again, Hitler saw them as evil criminals. In his mind, their very existence made them deserving of that fate. They may have done nothing in your eyes, but in his, they've commited many crimes, and death was the only possible solution.

And now, in your eyes, the people you mean to kill are dangerous, evil criminals; their very existence makes them deserving of death.

Again, Hitler saw those people as sinful. Just as you now see the people before you as sinful. Your vision may differ from his, but you see the same thing.

Believe it or not, people DO care about some criminals. People do still love them, even if they've done horrible things. Granted, they're usually no prize pigs themselves, but the fact of the matter is that whenever you kill a million people, even if they're evil or sinful, there are those who will hate you. There are those who will feel anger.

By reparation, I never explicitly said money.

They love their spouse because of who they are, not because of what they did. I know I wouldn't care for a moment what my beloved has done, because she is who she is, and I love her for that. I wouldn't stop loving her for any reason. There's your answer, Neph. =P

 

Unlike Hitler I dont view innocent as evil and kill them. I view the evil as what they are EVIL. Hitler also thought the Jews were taking Germany down. He believed they had more jobs and prospered more. He was jealous. He killed others merely because they were differant, and didnt meet his....standards. He didnt care about anyones life. I care about life, but not enough to help those who haved sinned. What makes think just because their human that they deserve pity for killing? So you would love your spouse going around killing? You may love the person, but to that degree? You would love your beloved for the person he/she is even if they kill, rape, beat, etc?

Question: Will this disease kill the sinful or just mess em up? Does it spread or any of that? Stupid question, yes. But I want to know.