Debate Should a minor be charged...

Sure guns can maim an wound. But they are BUILT not to do that now, are they? There isn't a gun on the market (short of those that fire rubber bullets or water) that advertises that its meant to wound. You ever see what a simple 9mm (the most common in the U.S.) does to an arm or leg? Do you know the chance's of survivel after you've been hit. Very slim. The kid got lucky. Very lucky.

 

well if people like you have their way he won't be lucky for much longer..

 

Want to compare that to your "if I were a member of that SWAT team, I would have emptied my clip into that punk" statement?

Yes, they were justified in shooting him in self-defense, if he was aiming the gun at them. But THAT isn't the issue here. Last I checked, the point of this board was to debate whether or not the kid deserves to be tried as an adult (I'd say I need more information to judge that) and to serve 30 years of jail time.

 

He'll get his help in prison. If he is sent there, judging from what I know I the subject it would most likely be a Mid level or low security one. They would clearly keep him away from the real killers. If he chooses, or is ordered to, he can recieve psychiatric help there. A nice a safe distance away from those he could do harm.

Kid wants to die, but refuses to seek counciling which is almost always readily available, more power to them.

Kid brings a gun to school, puts a number of people in danger, he should be looked at like any other criminal. How many people are out there who feel lonely or were abused,or neglected or whatever. Statistically, most (a good 90%) don't turn around and do something this extreme. As a cop, it would be my job to separate those that can do society harm (which this kid obviously did by putting people in danger) from those who are law abiding and good. My duties would also extend to providing help or at least directing people to places they can get help. Which is all well and good. But this boy wanted to make a statement and in doing so, he put lives in danger and broke the law.

It doesn't matter if he was thinking rationally or not. The fact is that he proved that he has the capability to act irrationally enough to put people in danger. At that point, he became one of the "bad guys."

 

Anger first, then pain and agony. I believe that's probabley how I would have acted under that circumstance. Later, I believe I would suffer from my actions.

 

Yes i do belive that any minor that does bring a gun to school with the intention of killing others should be trialed as an adult.

BUT if they bring it to school with the sole intention of ending their own lives then the kid should be given mental help and not a jail sentance.

 

I guess we're lucky your not part of a SWAT team.

 

Its human Psychology 101. During the fight of flight response, if a person does not flee immediately from the point of stress, they first expierience anger and aggression towards that stress. When the adrenaline wears off, the person then may feel pain, saddness, regret, etc.

 

sorry, i'm catching up now...

Yea, Um, Kain, i did mean 2003. Sorry 'bout that.

The reason her wanted death by police, was because he was not brave enough to do it himself. For those of you who do Not believe that he was only in will of his own death... well, you did not know this boy. I knew him. He was kind and did not intend for any other person to be hurt!

He was 16... I belive he does need a little bit of jail, but he does indeed need moe psyciatric help than jail...

How dare you say that about any living bieng! All people have the right to live, no matter what the crime commited was! If one of your friends and/or family members was this person, would you still say the same? Would you?

As said earlier, he was not brave enough, not even I am brave enough to do that myself...

Thank you Mordeth. I am glad that you have the same thoughts as myself.

There were originally 4 people in this room that he entered. He shot a bullet into the wall to get thier attention and asked for them to leave. There where also many others that tried to talk him out of it and he never once showed any intent in harming a single person. He would have never pulled the trigger on another living person.

I know what he was thinking... Don't ask me how, but I knew someone was going to do this from a dream I had the night before. His thoughts overflowed within my mind. He was terrified... confused, his feet moving on thier own, in a figure of speech anyway.

Police officers and such to me and in my opinion are emotionless bith'cades.(sorry to anyone who is one or has family of thier forces.)

No one was in danger.


~~ Aiko~~

 

You know, you CAN get help while in jail. They aren't exclusive to each other.

If he wasn't brave enough to do it himself, then he's a coward for going to the school and possibly endangering others to get someone else to do it for him.

So he actually fired the gun? Geez, I'm having less and less sympathy for this guy. You do NOT know that he would never pulled the trigger on another living person, so stop pretending that you do.

I'm not going to ask you because I neither believe you nor do I care about any dreams you had. All I care about is the fact that someone brought a gun to school and fired it.

You just proved your own ignorance by making a ridiculous blanket statement about an entire profession of hundreds of thousands of people.

Yes, they were. There was a gun in the vicinity, possessed by a person who everyone agrees wasn't in the best state of mind.

Look, I'll give you that some of the things The_Stranger has said have been pretty inflammatory, but the way I see it someone brought a gun to a place where there should NEVER be guns, fired it and scared the hell out of everyone else on the campus, and forced the cops to shoot on him. If he wanted to kill himself but didn't want to do it himself, he could have just driven his car off a cliff. I know that sounds harsh, but what he did was absolutely terrible, and he should be punished.

 

You know--I was really going to jump on the side of the kid in this story. I was ready to take sides and argue the points that Mord made and make this all sound a little more understanding.

BUT>>>>> when you added the fact that this kid shot the wall of the room he walked into, that changed everything.

First off, are you even aware of the power behind that bullet leaving the gun. Do you think it couldnt have gone through that wall and hit someone on the other side.

I feel your pain that a friend of yours seemed to be seeking help, but the minute he thought out this whole plan, he no longer could be considered a kid seeking help.

This is almost premeditated---he knew what he was going to do the minute he entered the school. There is no way you can say no one was in any danger!!! be real for a moment. If that shot had hit you, you wouldnt be signing any paper to get him out of jail, you would want his head.

As for the SWAT team.....They are only--Let me repeat that--ONLY called in to a situation if their are lives at danger, and believe me--if they needed to shoot--it was business.

As far as how he is punished--jail is no option, but maybe not as long as they are saying--He does need some help though as well, and I am sure he will get it from the prison shrinks.

But to defend this kid is just crazy.....

Victor

 

I don't think a 16-year-old deserves to be in an adult prison anyway, regardless of how tough it is, unless he'd done something a lot more horrible than attempting to commit suicide. But yes, most likely he could get his help in jail.

Not all councilling helps. I went to a therapist for a year, and I couldn't stand her. It didn't do me any good. If anything, I felt worse, because I was being forced to see a therapist that I couldn't stand and whom, I think, didn't really understand half the things I tried to express to her. My point is that just because help is there doesn't mean it will benefit you - even if you WANT help. Don't make it so simple.

Yes, but your opinions have been very harsh, unnecessarily so. You're treating him as if he DID do physical harm to others or actually intended to. You CANNOT prosecute someone because they maybe, might have, under the right circumstances, possibly hurt someone. He didn't. This doesn't mean he should be given a pat on the back and handed a bottle of happy pills, end of story - but there's no reason to make this kid a villain. "Foolish" and "misguided" are far better ways of classifying his actions, which admittedly were very dangerous.

As I said, his actions DID justify the on-the-scene response. But the issue here is how he is to be dealt with in court. EVERYONE has the "capability to act irrationally enough to put people in danger" - to bring up your statement about emptying your clip into him again, ever thought about how irrational that is and how dangerous that would be for the bystanders? Yes, he put people at risk. Yes, there were better ways of making a statement that he needed help. Yes, he needs to be dealt with. But he doesn't need a damn 30-year jail sentence in an adult prison.

Studies do show that teen criminals are more likely to have repeat offenses if they go into jail situations rather than into correctional programs that focus on giving them skills and assistance. If your kid tried something like this student did, would you want them locked up for almost twice the span of their life up until then?

 

Lock the screwball away for a good amount of time, but not an outright jail. Little bastard wouldn't survive. No, he needs a softer, more theraputic experience.

 

Though he probably will be charged as an adult, I agree with some others that a mental institution would be better. If he's doesn't have the mind of a killer now, prison may help him become one or he may succeed in killing himself.

 

Unfortunately, really, we can't know what this kid planned on doing. He can cry and moan and scream that he wanted to kill himself, but only he (and maybe Professor X) knew what was going through his head and what he truly planned on doing. Lying, fibbing, exaggerating, etc. are all part of human nature. Really, it all depends on what "evidence" points towards being the most likely evident fact. Of course he could probably be charged with a myriad of things. Unfortunately though I don't really think putting him in a mental institution, or getting him "help" will do much. In my personal opinion I think once you get to a certain point, there's no real going back. Sometimes, yes, but that is because the media gives us access to these "miracle" stories and leaves out the myriads of stories about the people who don't make it, where it doesn't work, or when things get worse. It *is* entirely possible he planned on killing himself... but there's also a chance it could be the other. Not to mention some times when a person is so intent on killing themselves, they'd go through drastic measures to try and make it so (as far as killing someone else so that they *would* be killed, or killing anyone that tries to stop them). Of course, anything's possible.

Anyways, my opinion. Send him to prison. If he wants to be dead so bad, he'll find a way anyways, at least then he can be put out of what ever "misery" he's going through while a mental institution could make a situation worse.

 

True, but the chances of him getting out of a mental institution are better than him getting out of prison in either the same state as he is now, or worse. All he has to do is convince them they he has amended his ways and is perfectly 'sane' to certain standards, and they would let him go, out into the world, to do whatever again. It has been done a myriad of times (strangely enough by people we would have deemed to stupid or insane to pull off such a stunt).