Philosophy Where is the line between good and evil?

Well, if at least I had Paint in this computer, but that can't be helped.

This is what lucky is talking about:
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|Evil...|...Good|
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What I said is that that red line does not exist. But a gradient where some situations can be at the same time both evil and good. I hope I explained myself well enough.

 

Um...Yes. Many dictators are considered good by their people even though they kill, and torture others. And saying 'we' can consider it good....Who is 'we'? I for one think it's a neutral world we live in, and that's how it will always be. Just two different oppinions causing arguements, violence and death. Oppinions lead to everything we know...And theres no way to stop someone from being opinionated.

 

And let's think back to the early months of the Iraq war, shortly after Hussein was deposed. Can you say that the people were thinking very highly of their american 'liberators'? Not really, they didn't have all their basic necessities, and were out on many things they had when Saddam was in power. Sure, things are (moderately) better now, but back then, I think most people were thinking of Saddam as the lesser of two evils, because at least, under his regime, they had most of their needs met.

 

In reference to what Shinryu said about things only being a little better in Iraq I challenge anyone to go to any search engine AOL, MSN, whatever and do a search on "Good News in Iraq"

After has read what that site has to say about what has happened in Iraq, which is all 100% proven, and then talk about them being better off with Saddam in power.
On second thought I'll just put it in this post but it will be a little long :anger2:


Literature of Freedom : Good News In Iraq


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Friday, March 04, 2005


Army medic speaks out in Iraq
Nov 23, 2004

Ray Reynolds is a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq.

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

--Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
--School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
--Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
--The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
--The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
--Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
--The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
--100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
--Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
--Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
--Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
--Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
--Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
--Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
--Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
--An interim constitution has been signed.
--Girls are allowed to attend school.
--Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

Ray Reynolds, SFC Iowa Army National Guard 234th Signal Battalion


I don't know about everyone else but the Iraqi people sound a whole lot better off now than when Saddam and his regime were in power to me

 

Zealot, I was referring to the *early* parts of the war. *Just* after Saddam was deposed. I know that things are getting better over there now, but back at that point, people were worse off then under him, and I'm sure many were wishing to go back to 'the old days' when Saddam was still in power.

But, yeah, let's stay away from the Iraq war in this thread, okay? It's not the primary issue here.

But here's a question. Why is it evil to... say, kill a puppy, but not so evil to kill... say, a deer? Or an elk? Or something along those lines. I can almost guarantee all of you indirectly kills at least one animal a day. (My workplace indirectly kills over 100 chickens in a single day)

And why would people consider it to be evil to serve dog meat in a restaurant, but not cow meat?

(I know, this is kinda a grizzly post, but at least I didn't mention bears. )
(I mean, bear with me on this)

I know, I'm awful. But I'm sure any of the scenes I've mentioned are Kodiak moments in this discussion. (Another one...)

 

I believe there are some definate lines or rules that should never be crossed or broken. My primary examples would be murder, rape, abbuse, and a big one being tyrany (I think I spelled it wrong). While I understand what was said earlier about if murder is wrong than soldiers are murderers, but I have a set criteria for when it is OK to fight in a war based off of the standard that our country was based on, the Bible.
Although I couldn't give you the actual verses I remember a sermon where we learned that the only two justified reasons for going to war of your own accord were
1) in retaliation to someone attacking you
and
2) in liberating a people or society from a ruthless dictator/tyrant

So while I believe there are definate lines there are certain extenuating circumstances that would justify what is normally considered evil.

i.e. the US entering WW2 after Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor

 

Actually, you have to question the "killing yourself" part. Even for the Catholic Church suicide was once considered a one-way ticket to hell, but now that has changed because a mental illness could cause suicide, such as major depression. So this partially goes back to law too that in order for a crime to be a crime it must have both the physical and mental element. They must have committed it, and have the ability to know that what they did was wrong.

There's no black and white, just shades of grey

 

Hmmm, I see a lot of radicalism here. All the radicalists should be executed

Seriously, I mean that you're looking all as Black & White. Say, like a child who steals a candy from another child. Would you consider it evil? - Now, imagine a father who steals food for his children. Would you consider it good? IT is as That Guy! and me said, just shades of grey.

Also, with the previous examples, if you're looking for 'the' line, but you can't make an universal rule for all situations, then there is not line. Simple as it. 'The' line must work for each different situation.

 

Well to say that things that can influence lets take in religion can influence the line of good and evil and the thought of the people and also the people over you can influence the bar of good and evil take people in Iraq when as Sadam was leading them horrible things happened in front of them but they did nothing because he was ruling over them and thus have a hold of their teachings and moral standerds.

 

religion does not divide morals anymore....It just reigns over certain ideas. If you believe in the sanctity of life, then there are religions they believe what you do to an extent.

 

Religion can influence morals by the teachings it has and how it can get in the back of somones mind by warping it yes warping the mind is possible through different procedures but mostly torture or solitude when not accepted by a heritic or many past religions have called unbelievers.Here's a little info for you to in the past the Roman Catholic Church would kill the ones that refused or got in their religions way they would do this in thinking its a good deed for God and in their religion they believes this.

Religion can't effect the line of good and evil I just don't believe that to be so.

 

Actually it could. But see, there's different lines, for everybody. For example,in the old times, the Roman's belived in killing people for being traitors or such things like that. But today, wouldn't you think that killing somebody, for any reason whatsoever, is wrong (AKA:being Evil?) It was their religion, it was what they belived, and you could never change that. And perhaps, they would think you're evil for not beliving the same things they do. It sounds confusing and weird, I know, but i belive that "religion wise", there is no same line of Good and Evil, due to beliefs.

If i confused you, or there's something you didn't get, please feel free to tell me. I just woke up, and quite frankly, i barely have any idea what i'm saying. It just seemed like the right thing to say.

Hoping it wasn't wrong:
-SakataKentaro

 

I hate to sound like a hippy, which im not, i value the life of every living thing on this earth. i would not kill something or someone for that matter, without having a perferctly good reason, and even if i do i beg for forgiveness, i go hunting a lot. as for the line, no one really knows. for some people there is no line. they are balanced when it comes to good and evil, but most of the world is one sided.

 

I dont think there is an exact line between them. Why? What if for every good you did you brought equal harm upon the world? What would people think of you then?
I think you can only be either one or the other. The line between them is a blur. Its practically not there.

- K

 

when i said a balance between the two i was kinda leaning toward the pure of heart. as for what you said kaiyon about for every good there's a bad. that is somwhat true. that was the same as me saying a balance in good and evil. there is a balance. just harder to see it.

 

Thats not what I said. But that still doesent mean that for every good theres a bad. Not every good causes harm. But some goods might cause equal harm.
Its always hard to tell. Thats why the line is a blur. There's no definite point unless you're at the tip of one or the other.

- K

 

So, you honestly value the life of a tape worm? Or a maggot? Maybe a serial killer, or a rapist? If Some guy killed your mother tonight, would you value his life?

 

Every life has importance, regardless of how the may act. Every life is vital. Perhaps not in your eyes, or in the eyes of someone that has suffered because of that person, but each life is important in it's own way. No matter how small, or weak, or whatever, all lives have value.

 

However "evil" someone gets, you still think they're not beyond redemption?
I believe some people are unworthy of redemption. That they've sunk so far to the evil path, and you still think they should be valued? I ask you the same questions as lucky. And let us see, just how worthy of redemption and value someone is when they take what you love the most.

-K