Debate Abortion

Where do you guys stand on Abortion?I saw something about it on TV,and thought you guys would have something to say.I don't really condone it,but I feel people should be able to do whatever they want.What really pisses me off though,is the people that try to kill doctors and blow up Abortion Clinics.Isn't this against their entire philosophy?They are upset because doctors are killing babies,but then they turn around and kill a doctor. That's like 50 times worse!Anyways,what are your feelings on this topic?

 

You really could have worded your choices in the poll better. I am mostly pro-choice, but I am anti-abortion. I believe that people should make the choice for themself, but that they have no right to end any person's life, even if they are not born yet.
By your choices, I can only favour human will if I oppose human life.

 

I agree with it under certain terms.Say if a woman is raped and has the baby i say she should be able to have an abortion if she wants.But if its the girl who sleeps with everyone, i think she should keep it....maybe it would make her to smarten up.

 

But isn't adoption always an option? There are huge waiting lists of people who would do anything to adopt a child. Wouldn't it be preferable to just stick through nine months and walk away without blood on your hands?

 

Exactly.Adoption is a way better choice.This way,everyone wins.But still,there are people that insist on having abortions.

P.S. Yeah,I know the poll options are worded kinda wrong.I was in a hurry,so I put up 3 half-assed options.Maybe a mod could change it later or something.

 

I'm, for the most part, pro-choice. Of course it shouldn't be used as a means of birth-control, or even attempted, but I believe there are cases (which should be fairly obvious) in which I would say let 'em go. Though I really think some people are trying to hard to get a vote for their side (like I remember reading in the newspaper about a Pro-Life organization flying a banner with a picture of an aborted fetus over the beach around the time of Spring Break, I believe it was).

 

personally I think that if you feel you are old and mature enough to have sex, you should take the responsibilites that come with it
adoption *is* always an answer, that for some reason i have never heard people considering.. it's always "keep the child" or "kill the child". I don't believe that babies are "people" in the self-aware sense of the world however..

in my opinion people grow self aware over time, as we learn more about the world around us and learn to perceive our sense of "self". thus killing a newborn baby to me is no different than aborting a foetus, the only difference of course is that one is unseen and not 100% developed, and the other is breathing free and 'human'.

so i suppose I am pro-choice, in that I believe women should be allowed the option of terminating the pregnancy.. but I do believe there are far better ways to deal with "the problem" (referring to pregnancy as a problem has always bothered me).

also, in response to the "if people are sleeping around they oughta keep the child" attitude.. this is a thorny issue as there are many people who sleep with their boyfriends/girlfriends .. who have had only a small number of sexual partners in their time.. but who a whim of fate have ended up pregnant/impregnating a girl..
as for rape victims being allowed provision to terminate.. well.. **** happens. It is a cold and relatively uncomprimising view, but terrible things happen to people all the time and they deal with it.

Abortion to me has always seemed the easy way out (although I know it is by no means an easy decision, and people do go through alot of trouble coming to terms with the after-effects, and even leading up to the abortion but nevertheless..) and i would hope that sexually active people would have the maturity to cope with this situation in a matter other than knee-jerk "abort abort".

as it is said, if you can't do the time.. don't do the crime. if you cannot handle the reality of the dangers of being sexually active, maybe you should rethink your lifestyle choices..

 

[personal opinion]
Hmmmmm..... wouldn't it be better to keep sex until marriage in the first place? Ah nevermind... people always choose what's more comfortable instead of choosing what is the BEST.

They even skip condoms because it feels more comfortable without them! And we want to believe people are responsible? Yeah, right.
[/personal opinion]

OK, now for the thing on abortion... it amazes me how people have come to believe that abortion is completely safe and without any side effects.

First of all, abortion is the artificial interruption of a natural process that harms NO ONE. In fact, it gives life. Can you (general audience here) think that an abortion will be without consequences?

I searched some information, and saw statistics for example, on breast cancer on girls who've had abortions. And it's no mystery that once a girl has aborted, she'll be prone to have more abortions - thus increasing the risk.

Also, the clinical procedures for an abortion, tend to damage the uterus. How else would you rip off the fetus and make SURE there's no remaining piece in there? It's like cleaning an overburned meal in a frying pan.

The difference? The uterus isn't a frying pan (and it certainly isn't teflon covered lol). It is a very delicate tissue. An abortion can cause a long-term damage, like complications in the case of a later pregnancy (This is why pro-abortion parties say that abortions are safer than births. We'd have to ask how many women giving birth suffer complications because they HAD an abortion in a previous time).

Now.
The real problem behind abortion is... well yeah, girls getting pregnant because they didn't take the appropriate "measures". It's a vast majority of the cases (less than 3% is girls being raped and getting pregnant, which is a very different case).

But what's the real reason behind this?

Disfunctional family.
Girl refuges in boyfriend to escape the hell of her house
Because of the bad moral/sexual preparation at home, she is more prone to have sex.
Because either the boy or the girl weren't raised in RESPONSIBILITY (what disfunctional family teaches responsibility instead of punishments?), she gets pregnant.

Now, because of the same psychological problems related to disfunctional families, can we expect a girl to say "yeah no problem i'll keep the child"?

So, saying that this girl has a choice in the first place, is quite wrong. Their choices are reduced mostly for parental pressure, being ashamed in front of everybody (people aren't ashamed about sex, why should they be ashamed of giving life to a human being? I don't get it), or their studies being interrupted (aren't there laws against that?)

So, left-wing parties think that by authorizing abortion we'll make of this a better world.

Nothing further from the truth. If we want to improve things, we would have to solve the problem BEHIND UNEXPECTED PREGNANCIES, which is... disfunctional families. By promoting abortion, we try to cure the symptoms (like the headache) of what is a very serious mankind disease (a cancer perhaps?).
Way to go, "pro-choice"!

But, as I said before... people always choose what's more comfortable instead of choosing what is the BEST.

 

Luvweaver, before you continue on the 'birth hurts no one' idea, please stop to think what you're saying. Having a baby is an immensely painful and occasionally dangerous process. Thousands of mothers, if not tens of thousands, die every year in childbirth. Others are left with physical problems that never go away.

- Ark

 

Why? I don't really see the point of marriage at all.

Uh huh. Curing cancer is also the artificial interruption of a natural process. Also, who are you to tell someone who wants an abortion that they can't have one because of the 'consequences'? If they want one, they can weigh up the pros and cons themselves.

The real reason is different for each individual case. Are you honestly saying that dysfunctional families are responsible for almost all unwanted pregnancies? Do you have any kind of proof at all to back that up? In fact, do you have any proof to back up any of the statements you've just made?

 

He seems to think they're the cause of homosexuality so sure, why not, heh. Anyways... good points there, Us. It's made out to seem that since bad stuff happens to people, and only the bad things are recorded, that thus said thing is bad. People involved in sports get hurt and some get killed (IE Professional Wrestling). So I guess, all these are bad. Van Gogh severed the lobe of his ear because the deteriation of a relationship. Thus, I relationships are bad (no relationship, no deteriation). I crushed my finger on a case of water today, thus, Poland Springs is bad. Am I the only one that sees just where this is going?

 

... you should be careful when lifting heavy bottles of water?

 

-_-" *sigh*

ok now i must say my peace... This is totally misconstrued. The Woman is an aware living breathing person who can decide how they want their lives to play out. The are capable of doing this for a wide range of reasons. Its much like how those of older age are allowed to drive, to gamble, to drink, to purchase adult rated perephinilia.....what have you. If u are deciding whether a grown woman or a barely breathing fetus takes the upperhand, then i would have to say that the woman does. I am not saying every child should be aborted if the woman gets the whim to do so, but i am saying if the option is given and after a lot of thinking and considering of the outcomes....wel then she can abort. Ultimately it is the woman whom decides if she does or not. By calling abortion murder u are saying that no matter the circumstances it remains murder....

Say a 14 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. By not giving this girl to choose whether or not she can abort, she will have to give birth and lose a baby. That is way worse than having this child aborted. I mean once a mother has given birth to a child, seen it stare back at her, then to sign it away is extremely worse then losing a fetus before it is able to feel pain. The latter of the two (abortion) is an option that should be open to women no matter the situation. Would u rather a doctor remove an unborn child or a drunk girl at prom leaving a baby in the bathroom trash?

Let it be up to a woman so she can regret her own choices if the case needs any regretting.

 

i really dont care what people do. It may be killing which isnt a good thing but would you rather die or live in a family that doesnt want you. I am not saying that killing is somthing that you should do tho. Adoption yes is a another option too.

But aborton is someones own option. People make mistakes. They should be aloud to do what they want. No one should argue what they think is right. It is a private matter and so no one should be noising around there.

People have the right to do what ever they want. And i dont care if they do choose to have an abortion or not.

 

It's her choice? And I suppose it was Hitler's "choice" to kill Jewish people during the Holocaust because they were in "his country" where he did not want them. The point I'm giving here is that a fetus, or unborn child, or baby is a seperate entity from the mother which I believe is entitled to the same right to life as the mother or any other person.

Some claim that the fetus is just another organ since he or she depends solely on the mother to survive. Well, a woman does not have two beating hearts, two blood types, two heads, four eyes, four arms and four legs. Even pro-abortion geneticist Ashley Montagu believes that, “The basic fact is simple: life begins, not at birth, but at conception, ” (Broughton). Sure an unborn child needs their mother to sustain his or her life, but, so does a baby once they are born and most likely until they are well into their cognitive development.

And people claim that "it's only a fetus!" Translated fetus means "little one." You were once a little one, would it have been okay for someone to deny you life because they deemed you as unworthy of this right, just as Hitler deemed the Jews? The only "choice" given in abortion is between a live baby and a dead baby. Do you believe a woman or any other person have the freedom or right to kill an innocent child? Surely our society must when 1.8 million unborn children die annually.

Thomas Jefferson once said, "The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government." So the government should, if anything, protect us in our most vulnerable state, before we are born. This is also a notable quote I came across while studying abortion for Law class:
"Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being's entitlement by virtue of his humanity. The right to life does not depend, and must not be declared to be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign, "(Mother Theresa).


And some may try to rebuttle with "what if the woman can't afford to have the child?" Adoption is always an option, especially now with homosexual marriages there will be even more people who would love to raise that child with love. There are many government social institutions who would help her and the father to raise this child.

Furthermore, I totally agree with Mordeth that if a girl gets pregnant when she isn't ready she should accept the consequence, which she'll soon discover within 9 months is a gift. And when I see those teenagers carrying babies around town I'm truly proud of them that they are willing to take on the responsibility of parenthood. If they can do it so can others.

I have a tonne of other information to share with you all, I'll keep that for later on...But,

I'll leave you with some stats to think about.

Why do women get abortions?

75% said the baby would interfere with their lives.
66% said they couldn’t afford a child.
50% didn’t want to be a single parent or had problems in their current relationship.
4% had a doctor who said their health condition would worsen.
1% had a fetal abnormality.
1% were victims of rape or incest.

Source of statistics and some other info www.lovematters.com

 

The issue here is not rape. Most abortions do not stem from rape. They stem from other issues and problems altogether. Try to see the bigger picture, not just to focus on the part of the statistic that enforces your argument.

 

Um.....that's 197%

 

You see, there's a bit of a difference here. I believe it's wrong to take human life. A human has the capacity to think and act rationally and independently. The 'life' is comprised of the feelings, thoughts and emotions of this person. As a fetus, it is only alive in the loosest sense of the word - it has no capacity for thought at all, it cannot exist independently... If you object to aborting a fetus at this point, when it is simply a clump of cells, then how do you justify eating eggs? The embryo in an egg is basically the same thing. The only difference between the embryo in an egg and the fetus in a womb is what they have the potential to become, but if you think we should ban abortion because of what the fetus could become, then shouldn't you also think that we should ban condoms and masturbation because of what those sperm have the potential to become?

 

Eggs don't come from people, at least not the kind you eat. Those eggs come from chickens. I don't think we're talking about eating people. Or about chicken fetuses. And it takes a sperm and an egg to make life. A sperm is not a potential person by itself. You want to get right into it, if more people masturbated, there would probably be less premarital sex, and therefore less unprepared pregnancy. There was someone in US congress or senate or something like that who had that theory too, but I can't recall the name.