Debate How do you feel about the U.S government

*is blushing badly from all the bad publicy her country is getting* im so ashamed!!

 

I wouldn't feel ashamed if I were you. Angry, but never ashamed of my OWN country.

 

i know, i am angry at them. but its hard not to be ashamed of them. you see...the media here... never tells us about this stuff.

 

All I here on the 11 o'clock news are news about murders, fires, car accidents, floods, even about cats dying, or a dog being mistreated.... No international news except for the occasional "An American soldier was killed today in Iraq...."

BTW, I quote my father: "there is no liberal media in America.... There is conservative... And more conservative".

 

Well, this is gonna be a fairly long post, so bear with me.

First, there's no shame in being from the US. You can take shame in the actions of your leaders, but the US itself is not evil. Losing pride in your nation doesn't help anything, nor does losing hope. If you are unhappy with the government's actions, get involved in politics, go to law school, get into politics as a politician, and CHANGE THINGS. Don't just sit and complain. The people who WANT to change things, are the people who DO change things. If you don't care enough to get involved, if you only want to complain and whine to get others to change, then you obviously don't believe in your cause enough to matter.

Second, EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD has the same egocentric attitude that the US does. Every last one. No country worries more about the affairs and welfare of another country than it does over it's own. Thinking otherwise is pure fantasy.

Third, the US government has, indeed, done a lot of very bad things. Vietnam, as the prime example. However, what would the world say if the US never did anything, if they holed up in North America and merely acted as an economic superpower, without ever meddling in foreign affairs. "This country has tons of money and power, WHY AREN'T THEY DOING SOMETHING!?". The US is damned if it interferes, and damned if it doesn't. Honestly, I'd like to see the US pull out of every country it is in, withdraw ALL economic aid/sanctions, and basically completely stop dealing on a political level with the rest of the world for about 10 years. Then see what the world has to say.

The US is in a position no other nation in history ever really has. It has the money, power, and resources to make an incredible difference in history, yet it is hated by the world no matter how it uses that power. There's no right path when you're America.

- Ark

 

That would be the liberal media, all they seek to do is further their own political influence (why your ask? Because they can). If you doubt that, hear this. Yesterday during a forum at the California state capital, a live mic was left on in a room were a group of Democrates were talking about how they want to worsen the state's budget deficit in order to gain more political power. Luckly, the conversations was broadcasted all around the capital. If we Republicans ran things, then it would all be a different story... but since power breeds corruption we would probably end up doing the same thing too. Thats the problem with ANY media from ANY century, it's always biased. Maybe a little, maybe a lot, but the fact is that its there.

Okay then, what would happen if everything U.S. would pull out from everywere and go into complete isolationism (no trade, no Navy, no troops, no nada). What would happen? I doubt things would just be all nice and happy all of a sudden, maybe not even after twenty years. Something would happen in the Middle East, god knows what would happen in Asia, Africa would probably stay the same and I can't imagine what would happen in South America and Europe. Would things really be better?

As for methods of operations, sure, we use underhanded methods, but its a dirty world out there. As for colonialists, do you even know what colonialism means? What the world powers did in Africa, Asia and the Pacific islands in the pre-World War 2 days was REAL colonialism, not this charade that people are labeling nowadays. You say they never asked for it... hum, did they ever say they didn't want it (you used the Fallacy of Ignorance there buddy)? Anyone who ever read "The White Man's Burden" can see what colonialism REALLY means. Sure, people can whine about the oil and whatnot. True, that probably was one of the benifits looked at in Iraq. But colonialist TOOK resources, they really never bought, or if they did, they would make a huge profit off of this. I don't see this happening with anyplace in the gulf. Do you really think the U.S. wants to stay there? Heck, one of the main purposes why we invaded Iraq was so we could end this "cold war" containment strategy around Iraq and be able to take our military out of there. It's expensive to house a military at a base halfway around the world, they won't linger when the job is done.

Here's a Political discourse on Colonialism. I recommend to check it out, or get your definition of colonialism right before everything, everyone does gets that kind of label.
http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/landow/post/poldiscourse/colonialov.html

 

Phalanx
Yes, I do know what colonialism means, perhaps much better than you do. And yes, I do believe that the US is actively stealing resources from the local nations. Those resources include oil from Iraq, and others. When you have ideas like "We need to teach them democracy", you are thinking like a colonialist, and when you occupy their nation, and extract its resources for your own uses, that's the second part of colonialism.

About the media, you said the liberal media is the one doing that... And you beliebe FOX news is fair and balanced? Yeah... wake up.

And about interfering. DID I EVER SAY I WANTED THE US TO GO INTO ISOLITIONALISM??? READ MY POST AGAIN!!! Whenever the US IS ASKED TO INTERFERE, like RIGHT NOW in Liberiba, it has the humanitarian and moral obligation to interfere to save lives. LIKE EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, especiially the European nations. When it IS NOT asked to interfere, it has NO business butting in, so it should not.

And something you said was EXTREMELY funny. You said... WE NEED OUT MILITARY STATIONED IN IRAQ TO GAIN ITS RESOURCES??? That is truly funny. We are SETTING UP their government, we are creating a puppet government, which will probably be under the leash of the US.

 

damn my history knowledge... but, according to my world history books, we did have an isolationism policy. we basically ended it during WWII, after the bombing of pearl harbor. before that, we didnt exactly have clean hands, either. the us secretly gave weapons to the allied powers during WWI, before we were actually part of the allies. we were also given warning that the germans would attack british ships. and then we were suprised when they attacked and sunk the lusitania. the germans claimed that the lusitania carried weapons for the british. years later, when the lusitania was raised, lo and behold, there were weapons on the ship......hmmm... now why would a ship bound from america be carrying weapons overseas when they were not 'involved' in the war?

 

I guess this all comes back to Ark's statement of Damned if you do--Damned if you don't.

I am actually glad someone finally mentioned this. Do we honestly think if the US government never responded to the events of 9/11, that all would have been hunky-dory. I THINK NOT...

We can all voice our opinions---that is part of our liberties, but as someone here has already mentioned--Unless you do soomething about it, it is nothing but *****ing to the Choir.

We have to also remember a big issue here---Most of the members in these forums are young. They are the next generations of many countries. History proves that we learn from our misstakes. Lets hope this is TRUE.

Vic

 

Geez, I never thought I'd be DEFENDING America in a post, but there've been a lot of posts that do a lot of unfair bashing about my country.

First of all, I'm agreeing 100 percent that America is doing some very nasty things around the world right now (Not the least of which being the occupation - there's no other word for it - of Iraq). However, it's also doing great things. As it's been said, we've got troops stationed all over the place to help in case things get crazy, which is becoming more and more frequent. America also gives out more in monetary aid to developing countries than ANY other country. It's a pretty small percentage in proportion to its entire budget, but it's still more than anyone else.

Second, let's not forget that a lot of people bash America just because the US is the most powerful country in the world. Please note that I know most of you non-Americans wouldn't want to live here (And sometimes I don't), and I don't really buy that everyone hates the US because they're jealous (Although some are) but you all must admit: America's a pretty big and easy target. When something goes wrong, if America's involved in the slightest way, it's their fault. Take Liberia. If we send troops in, we're seen as meddling in another country's affairs. If we don't, we're seen as heartless jerks. It all comes with being number one, which many countries over history have been (England, France, Turkey/Ottoman Empire, etc.)

That said, I COMPLETELY agree with all of you when you say that this administration (And just about every other one) is comprised of bullies/deceivers/etc. I read that Rumsfeld is the worst; he makes almost every other country's people's blood boil. All I'm saying is that, while America is doing a lot of bad, it's also doing a lot of good and should be given credit for that.

Finally, I just have one thing to say to luvweaver. You say that most people in the US don't think outside the US. My reply to that is: So what? You're hopelessly deluded if you don't think the rest of the world has their own Britney Spears/Osbournes that they look up to. And I might also point out that American movies/TV shows/music are extremely popular in the rest of the world as well. So as much as you think our culture sucks, it's certainly spreading...

 

Billy,
Very good points. In fact, some people are jeoulous. Some people use the mentality of "the US is helping them, why not help us?". Such mentality, of course, is utterly stupid.

Good point about foreign aid, as well.

But bad conclusion from foreign aid. You seriously think foreign aid is meant to ONLY help countries? Countries that receive foreign aid by the US "owe" something to the US. Examples: Turkey, example: Pakistan. They received foreign aid, but then had to re-pay the favor. I'm not saying it's bad, since the world revolves around that same principal. I'm just saying foreign aid is not EXCLUSIVELY to help people.

And about Liberia: The people are BEGGING the US for help. In this case, I think only the very stupid will accuse the US of meddling in other countries' affairs if troops are sent. See, they should help when they are asked to, not when they're not. That's how the world opinion can change.

 

Ah... thanks for pointing it out.

 

In school, we used to turn on CNN from time to time. We decided, after a couple of months, that it should be called PNN instead, the "Propoganda News Network", because every day they'd be talking about how glorious the war was and how their soldiers were protecting the world or something like that. Meanwhile, the basic idea we were getting from other countries was "oh look, some American soldiers blew something up again, maybe innocents died. You happy now?"

Here's my real beef these days. The US govt now refuses to give aid to countries that will not sign a certain agreement. This is an agreement saying that if a member of the American military commits a crime in their country that A) they cannot be tried unless the US govt says so, and B) they are tried under US laws, by a US court. Does this make sense? Say a soldier rapes and murders someone in the Phillipines. They could just say "oh well, boys will be boys" and shrug it off because they need him back on the front. Anyway, that's the ranting my family's shoved at me.

There's one thing that I would really like to say, and then I'll begone. If you say you hate America, or that you hate Americans, you are no more than a xenophobic racist. Judge not lest ye be judged.

 

You don't have to go as far as Woodrow Wilson.

How 'bout you check out the current Vice President, Richard Cheney. He has had an anto-African American history throughout his political carreer.

EDIT: I wasn't trying to curse him or anything... His name got deleted. You know...

[berry]when in doubt, write out the name that's being edited. richard is the full name of anyone named di ck.[/berry]

 

*sighs* i wish i had

 

Bingo! I forgot to mention that american (de)values are spreaded around the world. (Yeah thanks to the TV) Why? Because it's business. That's another part of colonialism. Teach them to think like us, and destroy their traditions. It happens in many countries. So thank you for reminding me of another american crime. Destroying values and traditions (either good or bad) for no reason other than money.

Yes, I don't deny it, but if in schools people aren't told to be at least A BIT responsible, then it's also the system, and not the only people in it, who has to be held accountable for it.

Of course, teaching responsibility to the citizens can be very dangerous to the government. It's much much easier to rule a bunch of TV zombies than to deal with millions of responsible citizens with a conscience.

Also, the argument of "everybody does it, it's not only our fault" seems rather cowardly to me. Don't think I don't do things to wake up the minds in my own country, but we're talking about the US in here. And I'm not simply bashing. I'm saying all of this so that at least one american wakes up from his/her doze and starts changing at least one thing.