Recreation Is sucide ever justifiable:)

And your opinion of euthanasia?

 

Not my fault they don't have friends or family who care worth a damn.

 

You generalize and dodge the question.

What if they are trying to spare the emotional stress, care costs and grief for the family; or what if their family is dead already?

 

Look, if they're suffering - I know my uncle did before the lung cancer got him - their family or friends have a duty to try to ease things as best they can, regardless of cost. Now if the poor bugger were comatose with no chance of recovery, nothing can be done. If there is even the slimmest chance of reducing the pain, that's what friends are for, eh?
If their family is dead, once again, friends.
If they have no friends, that's actually rather sad, but I know that I certainly would rather see the end through.
And even if you want to spare yourself the stress, who's going to be more stressed, the dead or the quick? There's a reason most hospitals will not take a request for removeal of life support from a living patient without the approval of the living. Let people let go.
And even at the most extreme, actually inducing death is not acceptable. Removal of life support systems, fine. It's natural. Introduction of drugs, never right.

 

But what if the family has a choice between keeping Grampa alive or helping sending Little Billy to college?

Or what if its not physical pain, but mental?

Lets say someone has the disease Stephen Hawking has. Their body will become immobile, they will not move without a motorized wheelchair, they will not talk without a robotic thing, they will have to wear a neckbrace to keep their head up, they cannot even feed themselves.

And during all this their mind is functioning perfectly so they have to deal with their total inability.

Furthermore, they'll end up dead not because of disease, but because they choke to death on their own spit one night.

If you want to live life through like that, thats very nobel, but there isnt any shame in not wanting to die like that.

 

Suicide, I tryed it 3 times. Yes, screw me N_X, but I have sever clinical depression and it seemed like the only anwser. I was sent to a hospital for it. I now take pills, lots of them. They give me happiness. I still think about killing my self, but I will not do it. I have ppl in the world I don't want to hurt and get them depressed over my death. I think suicide is, well, i don't like it tbh, but I tryed it, so I can't really say that. That Guy was talking about the commandments, and, well, I am going to hell, because I tryed it. Great, NOT!!

 

Erm..sorry man, but this can't really go in as evidence for anything, It's just the Bible contradicting itself. Or to be more accurate, The Commandments are God's law, the laws or Deuteronomy were set down by humans. The Jewish Priests didn't have the same power over the deffinition of sin that the current clergy does. They never had Gad say "what you hold true here shall the Father also hold in His Kingdom". You know, human error.

 

I'm using it specifically to counter That Guy's argument regarding that commandment. Not only is religious appeal invalid in a debate, but there are plenty of parts where God, or those claiming they are working for God, kill.

 

Of COURSE there's shame in wanting to die based upon your circumstances! Just because I have multiple personalities doesn't mean I can kill myself! Just because my old neighbor had multiple sclerosis and was slowly falling apart doesn't mean he had the right to kill himself. He had lived with the condition, kept his head up with the support of us, his friends and family. We did have to sacrifice things for him: our time, our savings, and alot of our pride (you ever taken you neighbor to the shitter? It's not easy, especially to a port-o-let). When he died 6 years ago, his family was all there - I was away at the time. They stayed with him, sat there, watched him die. When I came back ,they were the happiest people I've ever seen. They had the chance to say goodbye. Would you be so selfish as to leave people behind who never said goodbye? Would you leave the living, the ones who will feel these things, in pain? It's like saying your piece at the grave or the funeral: it's an office for the living and it serves the living. Those who are bound to wheelchairs can get over it. Example - Hawkings himself. He overcame his disability and shines as one of the brightest stars in the physics world.

Go ahead, follow the Commandment. Don't kill. But I was always taught to read it as "don't murder", and I do. Killing is a necessary thing, murder is not. Euthanasia, for example, is wrong. Killing the guy who just pulled a gun on you is not.

 

Hawking also had his studies to live for. A weight lifter with that sort of hurdle to jump just isnt going to make it unless he wants to. And when everyone with that disease comes out like Hawking, then I'll concede.

And as for saying goodbye, thats why you let people know beforehand.

Murder is against ones will. Euthanasia is not against a will. Killing a guy who just pulled a gun on you is justifiable murder; the guy didnt want to be the dead one but it was you or him.

 

Tough for the weightlifter. It's like a soldier who liises his arm in battle. He now no longer can do SOME of the things he could before. It's up to him to do what's right, rather than what's easy. He has to look at what he still has. If your life was so ruined that you had nothing left, you wouldn't have to worry about euthanasia, you'd die there, on the spot.

 

Life is precious; so is the quality of life.

Those who want to hang onto life to the bitter end have the privilege to do so. We respect their choices and we expect them to respect ours.

The thing is people see euthanasia as ending living. Its ending dying.

Most persons in futile treatment continue that treatment until they are nearly dead, until they are within only a few days of death. They "don't give up." They take what pride they can by saying, "I'm not a quitter" as though ending now futile treatment is "quitting or giving up."

There's a difference between "quitting" and having the good judgment to end "the battle." Remember the Serenity Prayer? It states, "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Wouldn't the person rather be remembered as wise enough to know when to stop "fighting" and start accepting the things that can't be changed. "Fighting" too long can be seen at the beside; loved ones sense "It's nearly over" but they most often can't speak what they sense until the absolute bitter end. "Fighting" ends at the absolute, bitter end. Hushed tones and downward caste eyes betray the inevitable disconnection happening. Too frequently loved ones are afraid to say "Good-bye" as if saying such would distract the "fighter" from the "fight."

 

Who said anything about holding on past the breaking point? I just said that the hospitals don't let the patient make that call. IF my body was out of commision for sure, I'd rather be shipped home to die with my family. The battle does end, it has to. I said nothing about trying to change what can't be. The death must come, and it will. Say my kidneys were going out, with no chance of outside restoration of functionality: solution, go home say goodbye. Say I had a stroke and would effectively half my body? Get over it, try to hold on until my family assured me that they were cool with me going, and go. What a waste to stay hooked up to a machine when all the machine can do is hold back what must come! If there is no way to live off the machine, get off. But you don't make that call yourself.

 

Well see thats what I've been referring to this entire time: giving up the battle when theres ultimately no way to 'win'.

So great. We agree.

 

ultimately there is no way to *win* in life, as the end result is always the same. so let's all just slit our wrists now and save ourselves the trouble

 

We agree on the action, not the meathod.

 

it depends all on the situation. I still think suicide is just a stupid way of getting out of things... wimps

 

How can you justfiably call someone weak or a wimp for wanting an easy way out of a situation that you haven't experienced.

Everyone has their own different and unique experience of life. If they want to cut it short for what ever reason that's their loss or gain. Maybe they aren't strong enough to go on, the decsion is theirs. I only hope that it's a descision that has been well thought out and not on impulse.

Everyones posturing and preaching about what's right and what should and shouldn't be done means absolutley nothing.

Our life is suposed to be in our own hands. It's best to get on with yours and judging other peoples.

 

whooa!, this is the kind of topic that could keep you up all night...
but I'll add my 2 cents anyway.
suicide is NOT an easy way out. and if it was what is so wrong with that?. Someone in this position has obviously done enough the hard way. Life is meant to be enjoyed, not endured. it is someones own choice whether or not to take their life. so i don't believe suicide can be wrong. The only way it can is if you have dependants under u. ie a mother committing suicide and leaving their kid to fend for themselves.
Neph and everyone keep talking about *winning*. life aint 'spose to be a battle. But everyone in this world lives under rules whether they like it or not.
a million yrs ago this wasn't true, and then i find it hard to believe that cavemen had any reason to commit suicide. (unless a dinosaure ate one of their legs. ^_^) as for diseases, they're humans fault as well and now we have to endure them as well. times change and since now no one can essensitial run their own lives, i think it is justifiable.

 

The chances of living a great, perfect and unstressful life are 3,720 to 1(as threepio might say) Actually I think the odds would be even more slim than that!

Life is a battle... If I believed that suicide were okay to do I would be dead by now! I just got accepted into University, which is a good thing, but.. now I have to find a house, I have to raise my school average 7 percent to get more scholarships, I have to find a job that will help me to pay for it(I think it will cost around 9000 next year), I have to buy books, apply for other courses, get a bus pass, find a new computer, get a student loan... my grandmother has been feeling sick and I'm worried about her, damnation, and my project partners don't seem to want to do any work for a paper that is like 50 pages due in a couple of weeks. What else? I have friends who are suicidal and I really don't want to lose them, I am probably going to die from the SARS outbreak anyways since it is close to my town.

Should I kill myself then?

I have been depressed, but who cares about all that stuff up there I have my family and friends and God, those are the only things I need And for some people things are 50 times worse, but even so... life goes on.