Debate rights or education...I Wonder

*shrugs* Then why did my high school, which used uniforms and were rather strict in enforcing them, have better grades compared to a non uniform high school in the same city despite more difficult courses? Of course, there's always the chance that your looser school simply had easier tests.

 

Situation between two schools located within the same district, one uniform-regulated, one not. I attended both. At the one without uniforms, not only were tests and whatnot five times easier, the average test scores there were still lower than at the other, uniform-regulated school.

I don't see what the big fuss is about. I, as I said, went from wearing whatever I wanted to wearing a "uniform" (much stricter dress code, not exactly a uniform), and didn't care in the least. They're clothes, people. If everyone around you is wearing the same thing, why the heck do you care?

 

I think because people are convinced that it's trampling their rights and such. ;P Oh boo hoo, we can't express ourselves by wearing certain fashions of colored cloth. THE APOCALYPSE IS UPON US.

I really, agreeing with Baphijmm, don't see WHAT the Hell the big deal is. I mean... c'mon, as Baphijmm said, they're just bloody clothes. So what, you have to wear khakis, a polo or collared shirt and a vest or something for eight or so hours until you're eighteen (or maybe later). I mean, really, people. Grow up. :\

 

*enlightened* :-D

THANK YOU! I saw this thread a couple weeks ago and didn't even bother posting because I figured some of the people would just stay closed minded and become angry at me for even suggesting that *gasp* clothes actually AREN'T important.

I've worn a uniform my entire life. I went to a school where jumpers were required for the girls, then I went to a school with a more lax dress code, but we still had uniform shirts and pant requirements. The only real thing we got freedom on was jackets. At the school I'm at now we have school shirts of only three very ugly colors and are all told we may only wear navy blue pants, shorts, and skirts.

I don't really care. I mean, it saves me the trouble of having to pick out what to wear, not to mention the fact that since "fashion" is so important to some people, a lot of kids will probably be teased for their choice of clothing. And really, is it a choice of individuality? Half the people will probably wear the same stuff anyway.

Next year I'll be going to a new school with NO uniforms, for the first time in my life. I'm not looking forward to that at all, I find it much easier to just throw on the same thing every morning without thinking about it. And as already said, it's CLOTHING. It doesn't have much to do with individuality, they're just pieces of cloth that were originally made so our ancestors didn't freeze to death, not so we could spend half our lives worrying about how we look.

 

i dont care particularly for fashion, you may even call me fashion-challenged. i dont care what colors are 'in' or what styles of clothing, i just cant abide being told what to wear. i wear an open-front t-shirt with another shirt under it and a pair of comfortable jeans. my hair is pulled back in a low ponytail. i could care less about what others think of me. only that i am comfortable in my own clothes.

 

ya know, this day and age i would be scared to go to a school with no dress code :blush2:
my brain isn't prosessing how your clothes have anything to do with taking a test.
how about they had really good teachers. that tought well and made sure they understood.
so im still spectical about this whole test scores are high because you wear what you want.

give me a break :sweat2:

---Captain

 

You're at school to learn, not to be comfortable. If you insist that everything must be so that you are perfectly comfortable with it, you're going to have trouble later on in life. Are you going to attend funerals and weddings in the outfit you just described also because it's all you feel comfortable in?

Besides, comfort, nuisance, pain, it's all in the mind.

Edit: On secondary review, I noticed you've abandoned your theory of lack of uniforms corresponding to better test scores. Amusing.

 

if you noticed you don't really have freedom of speech out side of school either.
you say the wrong thing to a cop and they'll throw you in there police car.
you go throw the streets telling people your believes and you can get in trouble for it.(some crap like distrubing the peace)
we use to have freedom of speech but its slow (but surely) is being taken away from every one.

i go to a privite school in England and they don't care if you wear a turban or head scraf. some kind of jewlery that signify's your religion. if your not being a reilgious Zealot their more likly to leave you be. i went to privite school when i was in the US also and they still didn't mind. :sweat2:

 

Define "the wrong thing to a cop". If you said "I'm going to murder three black men tonight" I should hope he throws you in his car.

 

Although this is an entirely different debate at hand, I couldn't let this go. I mean, really, if you talk **** to the authorities, a man with a nightstick, pair of handcuffs and a gun, a man who has authority, no less, then maybe you DESERVE to be thrown in their police car. I mean some are ***holes, yeah, but some are just doing their bloody job and people get on their case (of course I might feel this way 'cause my uncle is a police officer, over in Georgia).

And I don't know where YOU are from, but usually if you just talk about your beliefs in a casual conversation with anyone, you won't have any trouble; trouble only starts when you stand on a soapbox, screaming at the top of your lungs about burning the heretics, throwing fliers and pamphlets and such at people, yelling at them to praise the Lord or that God is **** and the Apocalypse is on its way. That's considered a public disturbance and harassment, arrestable offenses. And I'm damn GLAD these people get locked away, because frankly, the last thing we need is that kind of ****.

I would HOPE there's some schools that would bend the rules a little bit, religious tolerances and all, for such cases as jewelry, turbans, etc. I have yet to hear of a place that has gone unpunished for such acts around my area, but we're not talking about religious expression, this is a simple matter of people are whining and *****ing because they can't run around in their Old Navy faded jeans (God I'm such a hypocrite ._.), FUBU sweaters, Adidas shirts and the likes. Get over it, really. I think Neph put it the best; you're at school to learn.

[EDIT] *hates his computer* [/EDIT]

 

freedom of speech you shouldn't get in trouble for anything you say ( unless under oath. )

i've seen people get in trouble for talking about stuff like that and Actually getting crowds of people to Actually listen. (it was weird to me that they did get in trouble. there was no fighting or loud aguments)

im not talking nice converstion between friends. all they have to do is change the subject.

if any one went around doing that kind of stuff you mentioned it would make me feel rather unconfortable.
but hey it would be one of those smile and nod momments.


i hope the cop would throw that person in his car too Neph.

i saying like swearing at a cop or something.
some people say they just give you a ticket every few cases they'll throw you in their car. (seat you. not to make them sound rough or anything.) :sweat2:

sorry if i offended anyone.

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

See, this is NOT breaking the First Amendment because the people in question are not exercising their freedom of beliefs; instead they are trying to deliberately go against the Government and other people's religions, which in itself is against the First Amendment. I know it is going to be necessary for me to reiterate my point from before because, I don't know, maybe you missed it, but public harassment, public nuisances, and public disturbances are ALL against the law; if YOU were a Hindu or Islam or whatever and you saw someone being able to preach about how God is the one and only God and anyone who isn't Christian is going to Hell would YOU feel comfortable?

They are NOT being limited their beliefs; they're being limited to forcing their beliefs on others.

Secondly, you need some bloody coherency in your posts because, frankly, it sounds as if you're openly contradicting yourself in the matter two or three lines/sentences.

 

did i state that all i descibed was all i would wear? i just stated that that is my normal choice of clothing. if the occasion calls for it, i would dress up, a long skirt, nice blouse, dress shoes, all that. but my reasoning is that i dont like being told what to wear. it does not matter who it is, my school, whoever it is that decides what is 'in', or whatever.

 

i have seen people get in trouble for street gatherings i might not have agreed with them getting in trouble. but that fact is they did.

no it was not Public harrassment.

no it was not public nuisances(depending on how you see it) it was just a gathering of people. ( lots of them.) i don't see how a lot of people talking about their beliefs and disbelifs is aginst the law.
they weren't going against other peoples religion just speaking (telling other people) theirs.

just like those people who stand on the street and hand out bibles.

if you don't feel confortable leave.

 

Okay then, what WERE they doing? WHY were they arrested? What did it say on the police reports? Was a court involved? What happened in the court? What did they say? All you say is "oh yeh i saw tehse ppl get arestd becuz cops n teh law brake teh 1st amndment" but you don't give ANY details, let alone make your point in a coherent sentence.

If you don't want to get arrested, then, using your own theory, keep it to yourself, then. It's not like you absolutely positively NEED to do that.

[EDIT] Besides, the point of being here is to be made to feel as comfortable as possible without infringing and trampling other people's rights, which this is not. [/EDIT]

 

Help me understand.

Amon Sena for some reason anyway i look at what your saying sounds rude. maybe its just me.

Ryoko this is a first. control over your temper is normally lost at this point.

i've never seen any one get arrested for religious gatherings. but any way this really isn't the thread to argue this in.

freedom of speech in school and dresscode is what i thought the topic was.
maybe im wrong.

Edit: Amon Sena use spell check one or two words misspelled is ok but you had more then a few. and teh is not a word. she never said she investigated it like a detecitive she said she SAW them get arrested. she SAW AND HEARD loads of people talking about religion. she SAW people who were unconfortable with it leave. and seeing how normally when there loads of people at an unauthorized gathering the police are called to break it up. and the people who started it normally get arrested and released later on in the day or night.

im Venting leave me alone lol!

-captain

:Edit

 

your right, this is about feedom of speech and dresscode, but somehow we got here. if this thread doesnt get back on track, it could get closed.

 

Then consider school an occaision that will call for decent clothing, if you have a dress code/uniform regulations.

We all have to deal with discomforting situations; also, it doesn't really matter what you like or don't like. Simply put, that's life. Why should a school care about your artificial lack of comfort in other clothing?

Schools don't try to prop their dress codes/uniform policies as being "in". (Although I must say it'll be entertaining to see what happens if you ever try to work in a place with a dress code of some sort. Yes, you'll probably rebut with "I wont work at those places" but sometimes you don't have that option.)

 

again, if the occasion calls for it, i will dress up/ wear a uniform (in the case of a job, money is a very good persuader) but i dont understand why schools need dress codes. kids who have the resources to secure name brand clothing will wear it, the kids who can only buy the dollar general store brand will wear that.(like me) the fashion contest will go on, no matter what ppl wear, so i figure, just wear what is comfortable for me, and screw everyone else.

 

Well, it was an easily observed fact at my high school that fight frequencies were much higher on non-uniform days (That Guy! can confirm). Additionally, the fashion war in school will not continue, at least nowhere near the same extent it exists now.

Besides, what makes for a better learning peer group - an orderly, decent looking group, or a bunch of kids who look like they just stumbled out of Auschwitz?

The social value of school is based on the person to person interaction between students, but that should never outweigh the acedemics that kids are primarily at school to learn. Clothing, jewelry, make-up, etc. are not necessary for EITHER.

Besides, who can resist a girl in a catholic school uniform? *wiggles eyebrows*