Debate Abortion

Or not, and the kid will grow up in an orphanage with no one who loves him. Like we really need MORE unwanted kids in this country (Or world, for that matter.)

 

i haven't been in every orphanage in this planet so i wouldn't know but then again, at least have these children appreciate life.

how can u even have the stomache to say somethin' like that?! what do u think this world is? a box of chocolates where u just toss the ones u don't like? i sounded like forest gump there for a sec but damn dawg u must've hate children!

 

Whether you like it or not, that is how the world is. People won't always do what's best for everyone else; some will do what's best for them, themselves. Not everyone will hop to the opportunity to go and adopt ten little snots, I mean children (). Whether people like it or not, that's how this place is, that's how these people are, and that's how it will always be. Kinda sucks, but oh well, when life throws you a curve ball, beat the **** out of the pitcher.

 

The more I think about this the more I think the pro-lifers should quit trying to interfere with other people lives and decsions and maybe just deal with their own problems. Instead of trying to force their morals on others and making a hard disicion even harder.

I mean trying to tell an entire population what to do and what morals to have. Governments do enough of that.

Don't any of the pro lifers here see my point?
What the old saying?
oh yeah "mind your own business"
and keep your religiously inherited morals to yourself or those who actually care about them.

I dunno about everyone else but to me it's that simple.

 

I dont really care...If you want to abort the baby then its your choice. I mean why should other people care.

 

What about those of us with nonreligious morals? Are you saying that only religious people can have the same respect for human life?

 

Now, now... looks like someone's trying to get a rise out of someone else...

If you weren't too busy jumping to conclusions, I would think, or I would hope, that you could at least pick out the fact that the morals of religion have been a major factor and have sometimes become a basis argument in this. I would hope that you think a little more before you start jumping to those conclusions or try to get a rise out of someone.

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

are you being sarcastic? I was wondering what was odd about your post but then someone pointed out to me that you said "the baby"

And Zack, Novus was saying that some people gain morals even if they are not religious.. though, I kind of believe that morals and values in a society are ultimately from religion(and people are rejecting religion lately so that may create the norm to think that it's okay to abort a child even when they define the unborn child as "the baby").

 

If that's what Novus was saying, let him say it...

What I'M saying is that I believe Novus was jumping to a conclusion that wasn't even remotely evident, perhaps just to start ****.

And, personally... if anything, religion has shown me only lack of morals. What else should one think where kids are kicked out of a religion class for, Heaven forbid, asking a question.

But, personally... I just hope to see that every person that's pro-life here plans to, y'know.. go out and help every little baby that could've been aborted, y'know? Hope you all plan on filing a lot of adoption papers. But, that's just my opinion.

 

UO

Hate to do this to you but...

(from Stardestroyer.net)

Oh, and if you really want a silver bullet...

"The Christian glorifies in the death of a pagan because thereby Christ himself is glorified."- Saint Bernard (1090-1153), quoted from the Encarta Book of Quotations. Note that he's merely interpreting the hierarchy of the Ten Commandments; the glorification of God is more important than "Thou Shalt Not Kill", as suggested by the order of the commandments and proven by the fact that God himself repeatedly ordered the Jews to kill idol-worshippers and heretics in the Old Testament.

Please, please tell me precisely how murder of a pagan is acceptable while murder of a baby is not.

 

Re: UO

look around! are there any Christians today killing people in North America for the sake of their ideals? No.
And why is the murder of the baby "okay" in this society? It seems they are being sacrificed for an ideal we call "choice"


As for humanistic and moralistic, you'll have to compare the two for me.. really, I'm interested, try looking up some theological views too.

 

Re: Re: UO

Well I could sum me reply to this up in three letters, but I'm going to try and make this a bit more extravagant for the people... okay, that's extravagant enough.

*looks around*

KKK

----

Edit: I believe most Neo-Nazi's are predominantly Christian or were raised in Christian families and the likes. Not all, of course. But the ones I have crossed paths with.

 

Re: Re: UO

"Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free."- Pat Buchanan, speaking before the Christian Coalition in 1993 (if Christianity makes a culture superior, then he is essentially arguing that the Europeans were right when they declared their culture to be superior to that of the Africans and American natives that they mercilessly butchered when they invaded those continents)

And are you forgetting Hitler and the KKK?

"God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, and he is going to destroy you and a lot of others."- Florida State Rep. Allen Trovillion, speaking to a group of gay Orlando-area high school students, as quoted in Newsweek Magazine (April 23, 2001 issue). Every Christian knows the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, but how many are willing to admit that it was an evil act? Not only do they refuse to recognize it as proof of God's capability for evil (and thus disproof of God's moral authority), but some, such as Allen Trovillion, hope that God will do it again.

Besides, you're missing the point that even though these were religious people, they were NOT moral.

Yes, they certainly are.

Edit: Please note that I've stated several times over I only support abortion in cases of rape and incest or in cases in which the mother will die.

Humanist morality is based on human rights and the good of humanity. The humanist moral code applies equally to everyone. This means that it cuts across lines of nationality, race, sex, and religion; something which can't be said for any moral code which requires adherence to a particular faith or set of customs.


EDIT: In case you're wondering about the bit calling God's moral character into question, first of all, that was the opinion of the original author. But, moving along, the point of that is that God killed many by doing that, and that is a sin. It is not unlike the 9/11 attacks - regardless of the morality of the people killed, did they truly deserve to be killed? Of course, theres the issue of whether or not it was really God who destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah...

SECONDARY EDIT: I'll also raise to your attention the fact that a religion is not necessarily "good". There can be religions which fully endorse murder, rape, cannibalism, etc... simply being a religioin does not make it good. In closing, no, morals and religion are not a set package; you can have one without the other.

 

Well, it really depends on the situation. let's say i have sex without tkaing a birth control pill or not having my partner wear a condom, and I end up pregnant. Now imagine I am as old as I am now: 14. I ahve no idea how to raise a baby, I have school to go to, and I defiantly don't ahve a job. My parents all work too, so there's nobody to take care of the kid. What will i do? Go for abortion or wait for the baby to come and then file them for adoption and slap myself around in the meantime for being such an idiot? Tbh, I would rather choose abortion.... I'd hate to file for adoption and never know what happened to that child. Then again i'd hate to go for abortion and never know what that baby could've been like. But abortion seems less painful, cause then I'll at least know the kid never grew up with a ftaher who probably left me when i became pregnant and always wonder who his/her parents are after he/she's been adopted. And at least i know the kid wouldn't have to suffer anything, like perhaps the parents that adopted him/her were abusive. It seems less painful.

Btw, i would never do antyhign like this. I'm not stupid. I'm not gonna be reckless when it comes time for me to lose my virignity.

Anyways, Perfect example of a situation where abortion may be a good thing. Rape (as Neph mentioned) is another situation where abortion may be the way to go. If you're an adult tho.... and you get pregnant, and you and your husband want no kids... I'm sorry but it's your own damn fault for not doing anything like oh perhaps get a bloody damn visictiny (I'm spelling it wrong I know) or an insictiny (another bad spelling...) before hand. Don't kill the baby because you don't wnat kids, it's your own fault for not making the nessecary prepartions.
And if this same situation happens but you wnat to wait till like a couple more years later to have kids, then do what a responsible teenager (yow... not very many...oh wait, I should shut up, it seems there's alot of these in my town... and a lot more, but there's a good sum of ones who aren't) would do, uses condoms or birth control. Once again, your own fault for not taking the preparitions.
And before anyone asks, yes it does differ from age. yes, all ages are stupid for not taking the prepartions before sex if they don't wnat kids. It's just a bittttttt different with adults. How? A teenager hasn't even finished school yet. They have a whole life ahead of them. They're not mature enough. An adult is done with school, has a job, and are defiantly mature enough. And probbaly know how to take care of a baby as well.

 

What is odd about me saying "the baby" to tell you the truth i dont know but anywayz/
I think its all up to the women thats pregant......if she wants to have an abortion then let her do it theres no reason to question why. Its there life and whats the worse that could happen.

 

Re: Re: Re: UO

It seems to me that Hitler and the KKK were killing mercilessly for their ideals too. By mercilessly I mean the fact that for every 4 children the fifth has been killed. And this:

I think there's a certain point where people have to step in even if it's the mother's so called choice. I firmly believe that a "baby" should be given the right to life.. if you want to read an essay I put together on why check http://www.angelfire.com/extreme3/prolife/abortionessay.pdf

This debate is going in circles, I think pretty much all of the points from both sides have been shown >__<

 

Eh, I just hope I'm not the only one to rely on statistics 'cause in all honesty, if you look hard enough, you can find statistics that are sneaky enough to tweak your brain and make you think anything. But, then again, that's just my opinion.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: UO

There's a difference between targeted genocide and abortion. Take a guess as to what it is. While some might say "oh but abortion is genocide, it targets the unborn!", that is false. It doesn't target every unborn, nor does it care what religion, sex or race you are.

Furthermore, isn't it a tad one-sided to compare a 30 year long worldwide period of time to wars which typically left civilians alone as much as possible and lasted much less time? If you took the death count of every person involved in, for example, World War 1, abortion death counts would be nothing, especially spread out over such a long period of time.

I mean, it's a somewhat deceptive tactic, this statistic of yours. It's like calling me a lousy griller because McDonalds has served up some 66 billion hamburgers and in my lifetime I've come nowhere near that.

Of course McDonalds is going to have grilled more burgers, it's been around longer and is a dedicated operation with it's primary focus being the burgers. I, however, have other objectives to complete, things I must focus on more.

It's the same with the war stats you have - those wars weren't meant to target children. They were focusing on other goals, like capturing resources or rounding up the enemy. Meanwhile, abortion has only one thing to focus on, is dedicated, and intentional.