No, you can make a hypothesis that it is supernatural or non-fiction, you cant prove that its is ether so im going to put it in the category of Philosophy, seen as that is what it is the closest to, seen as it is a theory on the birth and workings of the world and life. And it is infact man made, as it was writen by many different people, not by the hand of god.
Oh please, there are tons of errors. Just look at the flood - it's impossible to have a global flood and then just return to normal like that. I have no evidence that an invisible pink unicorn DOESNT exist under my bed, does that mean it does? Furthermore, if you want some proof against the Bible.. 1001 errors in the Bible Biblical Errancy (please note issues 11 and 12, creationists!)
Nothing is impossible with my Lord. Are those websites creditable? There are websites that say there were no concentration camps during WWII too but that doesn't make them right.
If that is true, then why did he drown everything?! Drowning is a painful death! Why not just use concentrated clouds of carbon monoxide to painlessly suffocate the "evil" people? Or is mercy a concept he uses only randomly? Why murder all the first born sons of Egypt?! What did THEY have to do with the enslavement of the Jews?! Surely there were children in that slaughtered crowd. And let's not forget what made that possible: "But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go." (Exodus, several times during the plagues of Egypt). In other words, God deliberately made the Pharaoh say no! God must have wanted all that extra suffering or something, and whatever it was, it's morally reprehensible and vile. The God of the Literally Interpreted Bible is a mass murderering, hypocritical, racist, sexist, egocentric psychopath, and I want nothing to do with that concept of god save debunking it. And as far as the websites go, yes, they are credible. You can bloody look in the Bible verses they quote. Edit: Of course, if ANYTHING is possible with God, that makes me wonder why he didn't just teleport the Jews out of Egypt or something, or why he chose to flood everything when he could have just caused those lives to cease to exist and save time. Secondary Edit: Wait a minute! Wait one darn tootin' minute! Why do you insist that the sites be 100% certified, but not the Bible? As you said, just because it says its right doesnt mean it is! Tertiary Edit: Jg.1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." Looks like not everything is possible, even with God.
I am no expert on the Bible or religion, but at the age of 10 I discovered a fundamental flaw in the story of creation, and I no longer believe in God. We live in a world of murder, rape, violence, death, and suffering. By no means is this all the world is, but it exists. And why is this? Well, if it wasn't for Adam and Eve commiting the Original Sin, we'd still be living in the Garden of Eden in perpetual bliss. God preaches forgiveness and mercy in the Bible. So why are we still suffering for their mistake thousands of years later? I asked my RE teacher this as a little girl, and his reply was that mankind has not redeemed itself as God sees fit. We are still greedy and selfish, ultimately we are creating our own suffering. But God created us (apparently). He created us with greed in our hearts and created temptation to feed this greed. It's like he designed us to satisfy his superiority. It's like putting a bunch of monkeys in a barrel with bananas and not letting them out until they can all do the tango. When my parents gave me a choice of two high schools, I chose the non-denominational one. And to this day I have not been given a satisfactory answer to my question. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I respect everyone's beliefs, but that's my opinion. *kitty*
<Good Stranger> Just as it is a world of murder, rape, violence, death, and suffering, I myself have expierience things like love, accomplishment, nobility, true happiness, and progress. Though God may have crafted humanity in his image, we are not puppets as you have suggested. We have free will and ultimately choose our own existance. Your arguement is a sad one because rather than place responsibility where it belongs, you burden a being that possibly created us. Its like saying if you go out against your parents wishes get high as a kite and hammered and end up killing someone, its your parents fault. God preaches forgiveness and mercy, true, they are but guidlines for man to follow. Whether man chooses to follow that path is entirely up to him. The original sin is not a lesson of redemption and vengence, it is simply a lesson. God above all things is a teacher, and though a hard lesson, it is just that. God has forgiven, otherwise we'ed already be facing the the end of the world. Rather, forgiveness must first come from Humanity itself. The essence of life and the beuty of it is Free will.
Free will is just an excuse to explain why god doesnt do anything................. its like a last resort to back up gods existence.:anger2:
How would a finite being like you know the work of an infinite God? So don't put your assumes in to what God can achieve. It may not be true to the world, but true to you am i right? As long as you believe it exists to you, just like all the believers, because they believe, therefore God exists to them. After all isn't most of the chances we take today involve believing? Listen, it was clearly stated of the 10 given plagues and it is kind of a warning to the pharoah. But he didn't accept it and left God with no choice. But God gave them a chance, paint your walls with the blood of a first born lamb and be saved from the angel of Death. So he did show mercy. Secondly, How would you know what God had in mind, Listen, i am not going to bother to answer this reply, in the religious point of view, if God was either one of those, let's just say, humans will never exists in the first place. So think before you talk. Mass muredring, while performing miracles and healing, racists while he picked the israelites? Egocentric while he came as human in the form of Christ and died or us? Psychopath, while he gave his only son to save us because of love? You are an idiot.....literally. ^^ Again, you would never know what he had in mind. If you read later on into the bible it all make sense why he did that. God has a plan to everything. you are right about bible being not 100% true to this world, but neither are you criticism and answers 100% correct. The Lord was with Judah, and [Judah] drove out the inhabitants of the hill country, but he could not drive out those inhabiting the [difficult] valley basin because they had chariots of iron. (Amp Version) well if you look at the verse later on, (21But the Benjamites did not drive out the Jebusites who inhabited Jerusalem; the Jebusites dwell with the Benjamites in Jerusalem to this day.) it shows taht there was probably people who stayed there. God had a better plan instead of driving them out, to make them dwell among each other and become 1. It's not like God can't not drive them out with his power, it's that he had better plans. God had forsaw everything coming, from the temptation of adam and eve till now. he even gave us a fortell about the holy trinity, " let us make man in our image" Abosolutely correct tthat God made us to statisfy his superioirty and to serve him. He gave us what we need. You are sying that he is making us suffer for the sins, well you are wrong. The second Christ had died, All of our sins were forgiven. Because christ died, it opened up a road to eternity, all you need is to believe, bu yet humans are foolish enough to decline. So it is actually our fault still suffering, if we all believe than we would all be within the gates of heaven. he knows what choice we are going to make, but it is up to us to make it. He gave us something call free will, and that he can not force us in to believing in him but slowly persuading us to. Thats why suffering still occurs because people dont' take the offer in believing in Christ, or him in different religious perspective. Free will does not deny that God does not exists, it is what god has give to us, please think before commenting. :sweat:
Prove God actually did flood the entire world. Just because someone believes it doesn't mean it's actually right. If I lead you to believe that car tires are made of wood, that would not change the fact that car tires are in fact made of rubber. Bull. "and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land." -Exodus. This statement is repeated several times. God DELIBERATELY makes Pharaoh say no. Why, I have no idea. And where were this ways out during the other plagues? Furthermore, God lets the Israelites know this information, not everyone. I don't, but that doesn't change the fact that God made the pharaoh say no just so he could visit the plagues on Egypt. Ok, I'll prove it. Which is exactly what he did when he flooded the earth and extinguished nearly all life on the globe; it's exactly what he did when he and Moses went terrorist on the Egyptians; it's exactly what he did when he destroyed Soddom and Ghomorrah. That's exactly what racism is! My God! Racism is when you favor a particular race above others! By having a chosen people, God is racist! Genesis 24:1-4 (NIV): Abraham was now old and well advanced in years, and the LORD had blessed him in every way. He said to the chief servant in his household, the one in charge of all that he had, "Put your hand under my thigh. I want you to swear by the LORD, the God of heaven and the God of earth, that you will not get a wife for my son from the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I am living, but will go to my country and my own relatives and get a wife for my son Isaac." It just wouldn't do to have Abraham's son marry one of those dirty Canaanites, would it? It amazes me that people can read the Bible and not see anything wrong with the conduct of its heroes. Suppose we changed the names? The above passage might become: "Billy Joe Jim-Bob was a God-fearing man, and he said to his chief servant, I want you to swear by the Lord that you won't let my son marry a black woman, but you will find a white woman for him." How does that strike you? Lovely sentiment, isn't it? Deuteronomy 32:21 They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. God repeatedly states how much he loves to be worshipped, and in the whole ten commandments section the first four commandments in the first set are devoted to worshipping God and observing his rituals, and the first nine commandments in the second set are devoted to worshipping God and observing his rituals. Deuteronomy 20:16-18 (NIV): However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 32:21-25 They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people ... a fire has been kindled by my wrath, one that burns to the realm of death below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap calamities upon them and spend my arrows against them. I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague; I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust. In the street the sword will make them childless; in their homes terror will reign. Young men and young women will perish, infants and gray-haired men. Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (NIV): If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. Consider the following passage from Genesis 22 (NIV): Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." ... Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?" "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied. "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?" Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. ... The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me." Disturbing, is it not? Abraham lies to his own son, so he can trick him into helping him carry the wood to his own funeral pyre! It's not enough that he murder his own son because God told him to, but the bastard is too damned lazy to carry the wood to the sacrifice himself, so he tricks his son into doing it for him! I picture young Isaac looking up at his father with trusting eyes, and I picture that monster Abraham looking down at his son and lying to him about his impending doom. Does this disturb you? It disturbs me, but the fundamentalists apparently have no problem with it, because any atrocity is acceptable as long as you think God wants you to do it. Abraham is praised for his willingness to murder his own son, and God promises to make his descendants as numerous as the "stars in the sky" (thus proving that God doesn't know how many stars are in the sky, which is rather unfortunate for the Biblical inerrantists out there). No, I'm just a person who isn't willing to ignore the more disturbing parts of the Bible. Oh please. Why should peoples lives be forfeit just because of his plan?! I don't know, I've done a fair job of defending it so far. Or that all I need is an iron chariot to stop god. Yeah, I can see how terrorist tactics and murder are wonderful plans. So how do you explain the "let US make man in OUR image"? That's plural. (Extremely late edit: the issue here is that later on God talks in the singular sense. Why hide?) Egocentric bastard. You'll have to pardon me for not trusting a murderer. (to be continued)
If he knows what we will do, then everything is predictable, hence free will is an illusion. Furthermore there should be no surprise or jealousy when people worship other things, because he already knew. I call bullocks on your claim. "and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land." HE SURE DID A GREAT JOB RESPECTING FREE WILL. Then why do Christians of all denominations suffer? Surely at least one faction is right if God is indeed as he is portrayed in the bible. No, bad things happen in order to strengthen our resolve. You cant make a weak muscle strong just by having it sit there doing nothing. You have to challenge it.
The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy's explanation as to why God can't exist... God says: I refuse to prove I exist, for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing. But :says Man: the fact that [everthing is so complicated yet perfect in functionality] that it is utterly impossible for you not to exist. Hence, I prove you exist therefore you don't. Gee, I never thought of that :says God who disappears in a pink mist of logic: For an encore, man goes on to prove black is white and white is black, and gets himself killed in the next Zebra crossing. :catgirl:
<Evil Stranger> How does god repay even his most avid believers? HOW!? With pain my friend. It amuses me that there are so many believers here at this forum. Humanity is weak, always looking to blame someone else. God first created the angels, perfect, beutiful beings and yet god did shun them in favor of his new pets. The angels sacraficed there very existance to carve out a kingdom for God. Things were good until the humans came along. God turned his back on the very beings that loved him most. Greedy, arrogant, DECEITFUL- God GAVE them a list of exactly what NOT to do, and how do they respond? By flagerantly breaking those rules, twisting his words, censoring them, finally concocting a few parchments of paper and called it the bible. Why would God stand for this!? Why would ANY reasoning being believe the Divine Words of God Himself to be recorded by Man!? A storm hit and flooded a few cities, the humans see it as the world flooding. FOOLS! Funny how the other parts of the world don't remember that flood, eh? Man is wicked. Its obvious. A yet God still loves them. He grants them continued existance even though they shun him! The destroy his paradise called earth as well as each other! They break His laws, and CLAIM HE'S THE WICKED ONE! Yet, he does not intervene. He does not call upon his wrath to smite these fools from existance. Question not his good, question, instead his sanity.
Actually, I can help with this. Supposedly, the Pentateuch had four types of writers: The Levites, who mostly wrote Leviticus (hence the name) and often referenced things that were "dirty"; a group who always portrayed God as a living, tangible being (the scenes in the Garden of Eden where Adam and Eve see God walking by was their work); a third group who seemed to be more like historians (usually wrote technicalities, statistics, etc.); and a fourth group who consistently had God referencing him/her/itself in plural. This form of speaking is usually associated with a narcissist or egotist.
Could God be reffering to himself as plural because of the trinity? Or would the context of the sentance make it mean something different? Neph, could you provide the book and verse for this? I looked around but couldn't find where it was posted.
I doubt it, aside from lack of any sort of trinity belief in the OT to begin with, was Jesus necessarily "around" before being born by Mary? Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Nice search.
