I have never once said that I believed there was a god. I did say, however, that I can't prove there ISN'T one. The best way to strengthen your own point of view, as that old proverb says, is to understand the other points of view completely. Thus, challenging those who say there isn't God and reading their responses makes me more positive in my own beliefs, you know?
Now this is a 15 page thread, so I haven't read the whole thing, in fact, I've only read the first post. I think that beliving in gods is irrational and when social policy is based on such things that it is ubsurd and dangerous. and that is all I have to say
:sad: I don't believe there is a god. Im sorry.My reason is that since god answers all prayers with yes or no why would god say no to peace on earth which was what i prayed for
Who said that god was supposed to answer all prayers. Anywayz, wishing for something like peace on earth is pointless. I think it would be beyond a gods power. I mean you would practically have to control the emotions of people. So much for free will there eh.
There are many reasons why God tested humans such as the parable of Abraham almost sacrificing his own son. Neph you say that The angel freaking told him to stop so he stopped, but who do you think commanded the angels. God was putting him to test to see if he was truly faithful as it was said in the scripture from the post by vicious. You can say that we were created from God to satisfy in a way for his own superiority yet, we humans are another way for him to express love. You say why he needed to test faith. Of course in the sense that God is omniscient he knows everything he knows what we are going to do and what we would do. But because God had gave us free choice, we have the free will to not follow him. If God made us to love him without the freedom of choice than thats not love, that's bondage, as to force us in to loving him. We have the ability to choose, at the time Abraham did not have to listen to God, and could have just turned away from him, but because he was followed, he was than blessed. Also i think neph said that can God create a stone that he can not lift. Well yea obviously he can since he is omni, but yet at the same time he can also lift it. Since omnipotent means he can do anything so technically saying, hecan not lift it at the moment but yet he can lift it the moment later. You can not claim for God not to be perfect because you don't even understand yourself what full perfectionism means. So you can decide whether something or someone is Perfect.
eh. are you mad? the church teaches that if you don't believe in god you burn in hell, that's not love. there are so many bloody different personal beliefs about religion, it's ridiculous.. you can't argue the point because every person picks and mixes which parts of the bible they like and which they can ignore.
so.. god can create a stone that he can't lift because he is omnipotent meaning he has the power to do anything. but .. he cannot .. lift... the stone.. there's that christian logic at work again, beats me every time
The moment later? If he lifts the rock than he did not create a rock that he cannot lift. Years can pass....it doesnt matter. If he lifts the frickin rock then did he create a rock that he cannot lift? Simple question...
Like I tell many people, " Dont worry about how we got here worry about whats happening right now." What difference does it make whether we find out the exact date that people arrived on earth. It wont prove anything. So no point in worrying about it.
That is one of the most disgusting beliefs I've ever seen. That isn't love. If your husband (or alternatively and more appropriately your biological father) told you to kill your son to prove your love to him, would you consider him a good, loving person? Petty little scumbag. "I love you all soooooooo much. That's exactly why I'm going to order my favorites to wipe the rest of you out. Dogs." Any god who prefers mindless obedience to the point that you will slaughter your own children is not a god I want to be associated with. No. That would mean he can't lift it an one moment (which means he is not omnipotent because he can't lift it) and then CHANGES ITS PROPERTIES. Perhaps you need to understand the concept of "mutual exclusiveness". It's like asking me to make a cubic sphere. It is not something that can be done, because if it has corners, it is not a sphere, and if it's round, it obviously isn't cubic. Wow, that's like saying that because I'm not black, I can't say that Martin Luther King Jr was black. God is obviously not perfect because he can sin, humans can have superior morality and change his mind (this is illustrated in Exodus), and God also inflicts tortures needlessly (like when he hardened pharoahs heart. That would indicate Pharaoh needed his opinion altered for God to unleash more plagues... um, why? If Pharaoh needed his heart hardened, that'd indicate he was willing to at least consider it. Worse, God unleashed the plagues against the -civilian- population. In that regard, Biblical God is a scumbag terrorist. Also, the whole "heart hardening" issue indicates that God has NO respect for free will). That depends on what you mean by "how we got here". Do you mean how the universe was created, how life on Earth started, what? Personally I feel evolution is what resulted in mankind. While I do believe God/Goddess exists, I do not feel they are as portrayed in the Bible or many if any other religions.
Thats the most ridiculous comparions i have ever heard. First of all God foresaw everything in his plan, he knew when to tell him to stop. Secondly, it was God who gave him his son at the age of 100, do you really think that without God, Abraham could have a son. If God can give, he is able to take, he is testing to see if Abraham would doubt him. Please read before abraham's wife gave birth, she doubted God that he could give her a son, so God muted her until she gave birth. If God was so cold, i don't think he would grant miracles and answer prayers as to abraham's wish of having a son and making him fathers of nations. Please i would prefer if you don't insult and keep this civilized. Are you like that much of an idiot? At the old testament when God told Noah to build his ark to save his family and himself from the flood, he wanted to save Noah. The reason he flooded the world was because the world was sinning too much and the people of the world chose to abadon God. Since God was holy he could not tolerate sin and he thought it is required for him to start all over. You know if he was really cruel he didn't need to save anyone even Noah. because he felt that Noah had believe all the way and not abandon him, he was saved. AFterwards, God also made a promise, the rainbow as a sign that God would not destroy all of humanity again with a flood ever. First of all do not even make the critism can God lift something greater than he. Thats a pathetic question. you are trying to use logic to prove that God is not omnipotent. First of all, Why would God do that? What does that prove, that he is capable to do something greater than himself within logic? Secondly How would you know God couldn't. Do not think because it's greater than God, he can't lift it, for it is written "with God all things are possible". So don't use your pathetic logic to prove that God is not omni, because all you know is what is within this world you don't know what God is or who God is, You don't know his powers so do not test him. Well obvioulsy you must understand Martin Luther King is human and we have clearly seen him. If you would please refer to the title of this thread Do you believe in the existence of God? :sweat: you don't even know if he exists than how can you judge that he is not perfect. You can say that martin is black because you know for a fact. But you can't judge God because you don't know him. For the believers they believe that God is perfect so to them is perfect but may be not for you. Obviously you can't say you know him, because you don't. And that's like saying i think you are black but I don't even know you. So i don't think you are capable of judging God. Just cause God is capable of sinning doesn't mean he will sin. So if you are capable of stealing and you didn't steal, but i accused you of it, so you stole? Anyone can change his mind because God gave them free will, otherwise God might as well make robot because we cannot choose, the choice had already been made for us. He needs to give us free will so that we would be able to express love from what we understand and not from pre made choice back to God. Are you seriously that dumb. like if you would read, that God gave 10 plagues before killing the eldest son. You see he gave the pharoah 10 times and each time the pharoah made a false reply. Pretending to let the Israelites to God but in the end not letting. Because of his selfishness, God had to kill the eldest sons. So it was really pharoah's fault since he was giving that many choices and not taking it. First of all don't use free will against God because God gave it to you. He said, he was going to save his people from Israel. God needed to harden and unleash the plagues because Pharoah defied and angered God. The pharoah was fighting against someone greater than he. Secondly I don't think pharoah deserved much either, when God led his people to the red sea and that Moses and the Israelite were crossing, Pharoah still came after the people not wanting to let them go. So who here is the real scum bag, God the one who saved his people, or the Pharoah who is trying to take the Israelites as the egyptians servant and use them for their own pleasure. God did give pharoah the free will, if pharoah had taken the choice of letting them go the easy, way no one was required to die. So right there it is proven that Free will was given to pharoah but he just did not take it and needed to learn from the hard way. God a scumbag? I think not.
If God knew everything that would happen, why did he need to test then? We'll see how long this will last. I insulted the concept of a God who needed his ego stroked en masse, lets see how long it takes before you insult the person making an argument. WELL APPARENTLY IT DIDN'T LAST TOO LONG! "People, people! Listen to me! It's perfectly alright for God to kill nearly everything on Earth! HE SAVED TWO PEOPLE!!!" It's called a hypothetical, shmendrick. Because "liftable" and "unliftable" are mutually exclusive concepts. It's written I have an invisible pink unicorn hiding under my bed, that doesn't mean it's true. Conversely, you do not 100% know for a fact god actually exists. Therefore, how can you judge that he IS perfect? I can't judge him because I don't know him? Oh, well, I never talked to Hitler either, I guess I can't condemn him as a mass murderer. God isn't perfect, just like your english skills. You don't know God either. Why does this necessarily mean he is perfect? If God was perfect, he would not be able to perform a morally wrong act. And to think, mere paragraphs ago you told me not to insult God and to be civil. Why should I even listen to your arguments when you cannot remain internally consistent? Exodus 10 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him... 20 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go. God clearly interfered with free will, kid. These aren't the only times God hardened Pharaoh's heart in that book either. No, it was Gods fault, since he "hardened Pharaoh's heart". Don't use free will the way I want to? What? Given that the Israelites later on invaded, enslaved and exterminated other people, I'd say neither of them are sparkling examples of morality. Did you even read the Old Testament? And then interfered with it. Exodus 7 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. 2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land. 3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. You lose, kid. Besides, how do you think its just for God to play favorites? Does that not strike you as racist? Replace "God" with "Hitler" and "Israelites" with "Aryan" and you would be screeching about how evil it all is, but noooo, it's ok because its God!
We were given free-will for a reason; to USE it of course. So since it's FREE WILL, we are allowed to use it in any manner that we deem fit. And just for further reference, I accept all those stories of Jesus and Moses and all of the Bible and the likes as just that; stories. S'all. Nothing more. Though do make VERY good works of fiction though. Whether God is there or not, who knows? I don't, but if he is, I'll judge him all I like and flat out call him a sick, twisted and demented sadist. And... if "with God all things are possible"... could that possibly mean something higher than God? That'd be nifty. Or for even more of a paradox or a twist, the lack of the presence of God. But then he wouldn't be present, so it wouldn't matter... but what if he is? If all things are possible, than that'd mean the lack of his presence is as well... the hurting and the aching and the pain in the head. But in turn, if all things are possible, than that could also mean the rock that was spoken of. I'd say you should think about that but... y'know, you obviously show no signs of individual and rational thought... so that's kinda down the ****ter, huh? At least I can say some people are thinking logically as opposed to spouting mindless babble, y'know? Kinda' like this. That's all I have to say on the matter. Oh and by the way... I LOVE the way you say that you don't want insults, however the VERY next thing you state is insinuating that Nephy's an idiot. Pure and utter genius, I must say.
I wasn't insulting him ^^, Just stating a fact. Lol sorry Neph I was just kinda out of control there, sorry for the inconvinience. Hope you would forgive. :sweat:
But see, now that's stating that it is a FACT, an absolute positive FACT that Nephy is an idiot (but it isn't). Sheesh... you people... sometimes I have to wonder about you... But then I feel more idiotic just thinking about it so I save my time for something better. ;P
Calling me dumb and an idiot isn't insulting?! ...WELL I guess all that schooling was for nothing, I am a dumb idiot in the eyes of the ALMIGHTY FUSHIGI. I should go kill myself now. I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you have to, write a post, save it as a text file, then reread it an hour later if you have the bad habit of getting so worked up you cease to be rational and as polite as you tell others to be.
