Debate Samurai or Ninja

well not all samurai were honorable...actually im sure the majority werent that honorable. and remember, the code of Bushido wasnt laid down until the late 1700's. so that whole honor system wasnt really a big thing until then.

as for the "yakuza" a yakuza is simply a gangster. not really an orginization. as for unemployed samurai, they were called Ronin or "adrift on the waves". strictly translated it reads "wave men".

 

hn

True, very. Quite a few samurai were well... unhonorable as you say. But I like ninjas just a little bit more becase of the range and looks of their weapons, I mean the stars are pretty and I'm the kind of person, who enjoys toying with somebody before stabbing them straight through the back... :anime: :anime: :anime: But the samurai, well, they had many different styles, and well, I'm reminded too much of Kenshin when the word, "samurai" is spoken, if you catch my drift... :anime: :sweat2: :anime:

 

well...to be exact i doubt that the ninja actually toyed with their prey. because they're assassins they didnt want their target screaming out and drawing attention. more than likely they just killed them.

 

Actually I think I remember reading something on Ninja and they did toy with their prey a bit in some cases, not necessarily a lot, because like Genai said they will want to muffle the target before any real noise is heard, but in the event of being seen, a ninja may come equipped with a long sword with a scarlet silk ribbon tied to the end of the blade, which is sent in every direction in order to limit the victim's awareness of the location of the fatal swing, caltrops, smoke bombs, things such as that... not necessarily toying really, just survival tactics.

In other cases, many of the toying is done by the ninja made up by the society of Japan as a sort of scape goat it seems for their infidelity. Magic transformations and ninjutsu spells and what not. They are made for those who refuse to believe they were upped by a ninja..

I would have a hard time deciding on either one though.... the samurai is a force to be reckoned with...

I would prolly go with ninja. ^^ Im a pretty sneaky dude when i need to be. :anime:

 

well, the ribbon or tassle would be at the end of the handle. It would have served the sme purpose as the tassle on the handle of a Tai-Chi Sword or a Kung Fu sword, to confuse the opponent. because the tassle moves with the handle its confusing to the eye about how long the sword really is and how fast its really moving.

somewhat off topic, im pretty sure the ninja would have worn normal clothing during the day. perhaps dressing like a samurai or more likely a farmer. they say, that the ninja when not on a misson lived the life of a peaseant, farming and then bringing their goods into a major town to sell for money.

 

what is the point of all the training and being a ninja if u still have to be a peasant by day? they should of spent the days training or having a rest.

 

Eh, I don't think it's so much HAVING to be a peasant by day... but it would probably be better for their cover to be a peasant, y'know? I mean... what, did you expect them to leave in isolated mountain shacks, running around in ninja garb, 24/7?

 

it all basicly comes down to having money. they kept up a normal appearance while making money to support themselves. thats what it all comes down to.

 

if ninjas did farming by day, then when did they practice? it would be hard to plant and practice at the same time. :sweat:

 

they would practice when on their farms, you have to remember, the farms then were wide spread and often time your closest neighbor was a good 20 minute hike, so it wasnt like people were watching you all the time...

 

You also have to remember the types of tools used for farming, such as the scythe. Farming would train their muscles to remember the way they are supposed to move for a certain move or technique. also remember farms usually consisted of wheat or some type of grain that stood tall making it easy for someone to train in the "shadows".

 

oh yeah, and if youre still interested in ninjutsu, go here. they have a directory of just about every bujinkan school. if you dont find anything, google "Genbukan" and "Jinekan"
www.winjutsu.com

 

Well, honestly, i voted Ninja. I've read countless articles on the internet, about the samurai fearing the Ninja.(Which i agree with.) A good Ninja, would have the man assassinated, or the fire started, and still be back in time for breakfast. =). But, in terms of winning a battle, between Ninja and Samurai, it all comes down, to who has more knowledge, who is better, the dedication, the heart and soul, they put into their arts. "Groups", don't determine the victor, the true knowledge they pocess, and the spirit of that warrior do.
Imagine Kawakami Gensai, facing a Ninja,...who knows who would win!, no one could say really. But, he was one of the best. Many people died by his sword, Ninjas most likely included. I like them both, Samurai, and the Ninja. They both have something to contribute. The Samurai, have their "Honor code", used Katanas, developed many great styles, and much much more.
The Ninja; "Art of Stealth", "Art of Shuriken throwing", Arsen, Espionage, and of course, much much more. The Ninjas, were rised in a village, started their training the day they could walk, Their family, were Ninjas. Their training was passed down generation-to-generation. As for the Samurai, i'm quite sure, they also taught their children as well. I respect them both. But, it all comes down to the individual. Ninja(vs)Samurai. I voted Ninja. Because i love stealth.
Sorry, for the long post.
Thank you all, it was fun sharing my opinoin.
Thank you all again,
-Saitou_Hajime

 

I vote ninjas. They're more likely to win in a one on one fight. (Noticed I didn't say fair fight.) Ninjas have certain tricks that are very helpful. They hide powder in their sheiths and when they swing the sheith it launches the powder; they aim for the eyes. They also hide a more gas-like powder in these small round white clay objects. On the top they glue a white piece of cloth or paper or something like that after they put the powder in and it looks like a normal egg. (They make the glue from plants starch or glucose or something like that) This type of powder creates a smokescreen that they use to run or relocate themselves as they prepare for an attack. They also have shuriken, so they have the advantage of range.

So it would be speed, stealth, range, and pretty good skill (Ninja) versus strength and extraordinary skill (Samurai) Looks like the ninja would win.

 

QUOTE="(Notice i didn't say fair fight")

(sorry, i don't know how the whole "quoteing" thing works)
"All is fair, in war.", or at least thats what they say.
Yes, the Ninjas have powder hidden in eggs, and other things, to use on their enemies, but they weren't just used for attacking, they also used them so they can excape.

 

The code for quoting is [*quote=(person's name)](words)[*/quote] Remove the *'s to make it work. You also don't have to put the =(person's name) part in it.

And as for the all is fair in war thing, it's "All is fair in love and war."

And, as I said the powder bombs can be used to relocate or run.

 

=), were not talking about love though, so i didn't add that part in there. thank you for helping,
-Saitou_Hajime

 

well im sure SOMEONE did that one day, but usually they just hollowed out regular eggs.

anyway, i voted ninja, but erm.. you do realize that quite a few ninja were recognized as bushi? "samurai" really didnt mean crap as far as fighting skill went. it was a political title saying "one of my ancestors really made someone in power happy" oh and one thing about this fight.... it would look just like any 2 bushi fighting. the Daitou was the primary weapon for warriors, and ninja were no exception.

Swordsmen had shurikens too.. one of the most popular was the kozuka, a small knife that fit into the saya. arson, although im sure it worked, is generally a pretty dumb thing to do. accidentally burning down a whole city block would really be counterproductive for one, for someone who likes to work in the shadows, you wouldnt want a big loud lightsource, and anyway, they very very rarely assassinated. they went to war just like everyone else, gathered information, things like that. actually killing somoene was to be avoided wherever possible.

ok. i'll thow this out then. Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu teaches ninjutsu. i think you'll find it's reaaally not what youre expecting, but thats beside the point.
find a person who practices a "samurai" art, and we can debate that, although i think that person would be likely to com from the Bujinkan as well...


anyway, they were all people. some people are evil. some people are honorable. some people like penguins. some dont. it has nothing to do with any of this. the way they go about getting the things they want is the issue, not what they want.

 

I like both but i would say ninja because they can hide themselves amongest the society and be farmers priest and so on :sweat2: I don't know but maybe they even could pretend to be samurai :sweat2:

 

well some WERE samurai. "ninja" is a modern name for a group of people with unorthodox, apparently dishonorable tactics and beliefs. it was a description of a person, not a title, occupation, or social class. "samurai" was like the english Knight. it was a poilitcal title that was inherited, and sometimes earned.