Okay i'm catholic and we believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one, but anyways... Dante: Not all christians try to persecute and change those that don't agree with them. I don't and the only reason i ended up participating in this debate was b/c that i accidently clicked on it but i thought this debate was about if we thought God exsisted not debating the Christian Bible and talking about topics other than this.
You mocked TheGreatShinobi just because he says Jesus saved him from his behavior, without even considering the point: Did Jesus save him? That's my point. Instead of trying to deny his arguments, you just mocked him (way to go!) And yes, I've met atheists with a great moral value. But just because they don't believe in God, is no proof that God doesn't exist. The difference is that believers may HAVE a Testimony. i.e. "if you turn your life to God, God will help you like He helped me". It IS a valid point. After all, don't people in court discern the truth by calling WITNESSES? And speaking of witnesses, the historical records that we now know as the "new testament" point to the probable fact that Jesus DID raise from the dead. What I was talking about is that just because some (or many, or a majority of) christians are a bunch of self-righteous bible thumpers, is NOT an argument in favor of the non-existence of God. But I've seen people STOP believing because they've met such "christians". So, what can I say about them? Did they stop believing because they felt betrayed by God? Because "the only people who believe in God are a bunch of heaven elitists"? Many people believe or stop believing because of EMOTIONAL, and not LOGICAL reasons. Since this is a debate forum, we're trying to discuss the LOGICAL reasons why we believe God exists or not. So far you haven't given us a reasonable argument of why you don't believe in God (or if you did, I missed it). Instead, you just seem to use this thread to insult other people and have a fun time doing it. Not so fast, cowboy! Have you ever wondered why many humanists like Mother Theresa, or Martin Luther king did what they did, because they felt God called them to do that? Hey, remember Florence Nightingale? Well, she believed God called her to help others. http://elvis.rowan.edu/~kilroy/JEK/05/18.html So if believing in God makes someone a better person, what's so wrong with that? Maybe God does exist, after all, and helps us by moving people's consciences I end my post with a question: Just because other people quote off-topic, gives you the right to do so? What makes you better than them? If what you're gonna say doesn't contribute to the discussion (and i mean discussion, not flame-wars), please, don't say it. I respect you and i at least ask you to respect the other people in here.
I... see... you respect me, however, I'm not allowed to quote off-topic, while other people can? So... if I do something that other people are doing... that automatically means that I'm saying that I'm better than them? Sheesh, and I thought I was obsessed with insinuations and assumptions... the word "witness" automatically provides probable cause of the existence of God, someone not believing in God doesn't make it true however someone believing in God makes it so, the New Testament is fact, I need to explain why I don't believe in God to people who believe in God because of "faith" (whereas the same argument cannot be used for the opposite), I can't reply with EMOTIONAL words because someone decides to believe because of EMOTIONAL events... So, in conclusion... I get a handicap in debating. Fun, fun. A-a-a-a-a-anyways... I made valid points when people were still making valid points, before they started getting into the whole "The Bible is fact, God exists ph33r, you're teh wr0ng" dealy-o. Maybe if people start getting back into the debate instead of random inanity, perhaps I'll do the same.
Whether or not God exists, if believing in Him calls people to help others, then maybe suspension of disbelief is a good thing. Furthermore, if you call on the Bible (i.e: God's word) to prove that God exists, what's the point? Half of religion is faith, and faith means belief in something you can't prove. So what does it matter if God really exists or not? If we're causing our own miracles? Just so long as those miracles keep happening, as long as people still do good things. Believe in God. Belief is good. Have faith. But remember...if God helps those that helps themselves, doesn't that mean that in a way, we are our own God? I think that belief in a higher power is an important thing, because it keeps us from getting too egotistical (READ: If we were the highest power, then who would we fear? Ourselves? The "forces of Nature"? Then we'd all be druids!), and I cannot prove or disprove God's existance. You know what? I think we should be happy that we can't prove or disprove it. Do we really want to know? The other half of religion is morals. God hands down "His Rules". Most religions have good rules to live by (most, not all...you know, sacrificing virgins and stuff is cool...but it's just NOT cool ). Why are we arguing about this? It's pointless...Neither side is listening to the other.
(had to catch up on the debate) i said read the new testement because he asked when did God change and im no recruting zombie and im not part of any cult, i think on my own and im still young and still reading the bible see my religions just following the bible expecially what the aposteles say (one more thing about the first posts of mine it makes me sound weird yea i did hang with a bunch of girls but im still a virgin because its a sin to do it before marriage , but about the bible i started using it because it is one thing as to the belief in God but just dont forget that the bible is also a recorded peice of history and it is used even in history books that people have in school( it was my tenth grade history book itd be good if i still had it) and alot what is written into the bible has contributed to what we have now so just dont forget the facts and back to proving if God exists you cant untill(you die) and untill we see the book of revelations coming into effect but as it is said people will still deny it because they wont look at the bible (a peice of my mind: just so you guys know i think it is coming up maybe sooner than ya think because i have seen great sin upon this world just by driving down the highways the streets)
Well, we've got an interesting debate going on here. I for one, would prefer to stay out of it. So, I'm going to simply post what I believe and be done with it. First off, let me say that I was born into a Christian family. My mother was Christian, and we went to Church every Sunday. My Grandpa, who we are currently living with, is the leader of a home group connected with his church. So, after hearing all of this, I bet you'll be surprised to learn that I don't believe in God. Actually, I had an e-mail conversation with luvweaver about this topic, so I'll just post what I said to him. I agree completely. Even though I'm not religious, and I don't believe in any higher power, I do my best to be a good person for that very reason. Perhaps it has something to do with the number of (jerks) out there. (jerks) is a word altered from its original form.
True, true, you've got a valid point there, Meaikoh. Well, I'd like to know. ;P And, I always KNEW I was God. But on a more serious note, yes, perhaps it is a good idea that we never really, truly know for fact. Ahh, how I miss sacrificing virgins. But, anyways... morals are always a good thing to have.. though not everyone gets them from their religious rules. Touche.
the reason why i posted that (look at shinrys quote from thegreatshinobi) is becaues i see people doing just that and alot of people because they have no fear in God (because they dont believe him) so that could be another reson to believe in him how can you even call yourself God at least look at the definition for it in the dictionary and god never said to sacrifice virgins, and you said you met people who arnt sinners do you know what all the sins are
Well... there has ALWAYS been great sin. And, Hell, I really think that the sin nowadays is not nearly as bad as the sin that has taken place before in History. I mean, sixty years ago we had the Holocaust, but nothing has even closely scratched the surface of that. Before that, as we previously stated, were the Witch Trials and the Crusades (just so you don't forget, those ARE two different events ;P). Prostitution was legal, drugs were being trafficked at a much faster rate in a period where everyone was, at least in the substance-abuse department, innocent. Investigations of murders, rapes, et cetera were more lax and bigotry was at the highest that it has ever been. If anything, it's getting better, y'dig? And yet again, I reiterate... you say we can't prove God yet you've tried to prove his existence yourself... so mayhaps you should stop wasting your breath, y'dig? Actually... I doubt that the Bible was in your history book, considering that school is one of the few places that, in some aspects, still keeps certain parts of life and religion in different corners, unless of course you went to a Catholic school in which case, your argument is kind of... hm... moot. Hell, throughout my years, the only mention of the Bible in my History classes were... well, actually, there weren't any. If you had actually bothered to sift through even a good quarter, maybe even an eighth of the posts here, you would see that quite a number of people, on both sides of the argument, have, indeed, delved quite deep into the Bible and the absurdities and inanities. And, remember, just because it's in a book in ink, doesn't make it fact, y'dig?
You can't prove a negative. It's your job to do the proving. So why is this event not mentioned in any other document? Lack of proof. Hitler believed God called him to do things too. It's mostly tribal myths with some loose historical fact. ...What kind of school uses the Bible as a history book? The only one I can think of would be a christian school, which isn't exactly neutral on the subject. Except everything important in the Bible can be found in earlier moral codes and/or other religions that had no influence from Christianity. But he did command the hebrews to kill other people in the old testament. How is it any different?
na i went to a public school and i didnt say the bible was in my history book but it was what was written in the bible like the part about egyptians they also wrote in that this info was taken from the bible. because the bible's also a record of are history ya dig
Everything, to you, just seems to be another reason to believe in God... I just find that funny, that everything is "proof of God" (even though he can't be proved). And, no one ever said that your God told us to sacrifice virgins (though, Hell, you never really know) and I think you need to learn a grasp of sarcasm and jokes, y'dig? And, if you really want to get into all the inanity of the "sins" written in a work of... hm... well I'd like to say fiction, though I'm sure I'd give a certain someone another aneurysm so I'll just say "the Bible", then everyone sins, at many points of their life. Except, of course I'm sure, for you. You're probably a perfect angel, right? ... yes Yes I do. Because you said the same exact thing. Thrice.
na man im no perfect angel (and even my sister said i dont know when some ones trying to be sarcastic) and the the is about prooving god exists like i already said ya cant and im not realy trying to prove him because the thing is the thread is about if god does exist and im just saying he does the reason why i stoped trying to prove him because i cant prove any thing to you guys no non supernatural being can and i wish i was an angel so i could appear at your house and say god does exist( but youll probably mistake me for et or something) edit about the history book thing i wasnt talking about the whole bible just the part about the egyptians and there are a few other parts and since i go to school still i might ask my old teacher to borrow it if he still remembers me (iwas a very good student)
The Bible is a very vague, untrustworthy source of information when it comes to historical fact. I should hope it has big, obvious details like "WE WERE SLAVES HERE" and "THEN WE FOUGHT A WAR HERE" but it is NOT an unbiased telling, there's no dating system, it doesn't contain details about actual battles that took place... It'd be like me calling the Disney film Pocahontas a historical documentary. It does have a basis in fact but it is NOT fully true.
read my edit i know they didnt fail to mension that in the history book except for the date thing they kinda said "it was around that time"
Even after your edit, Neph's post still makes sense. In FACT, after your edit, and this post, it only furthers its meaning. Good job, good job.
well of caorse its a good job ya think the history book is ever ganna mention any thing about trying to ay the bible is right that would be saying gods real and they arnt allowed to do that)- i think its because its in the amenments of the constitution the first amendment edit i know this is piontless but heres a quote i just saw in one of jakie chans interveiws "if there is a God he will help you" meaning even jakie doesnt believe in him but he does know god will help you
This debate needs another direction, actually is nearly going to nowhere. jedimdo's 5 points 1. There are many things in discusion and they're being posted unclearly. 2. The firsts posts weren't a real debate. "Do you think that God exists?" is a very ambiguous question. There are many question inside it: 3. Do you think that there is a god? Could be a question. There is no a good proof that a god could exists. Since the begin of research, many, MANY things have been proved by science and that's the actual trend.4. Are we debating only about cristian god? If this were true, then we'd be losing many important facts to prove that god exists or doesn't exist. Is possible that some boards.jp members believe in other gods, so it'd be better if we expand our debate to all gods and specify which are we talking about.5. Which is the real god? (Optional question) There are many gods in the world and many of them are very popular. Based on their teachings, only one can be the real. Which one? These are my facts and believings: 1. I don't believe in god even in a superior extrange unnatural force. 2. I was born catholic but I'm not anymore. 3. Aclaration: I was a good catholic, and I did more than the first communion an other rituals. I really believed in god but in the last years many things came to my head that changed my mind. 4. Cristian God seems to had abandoned this world. The only 'proof' that I have about him is the bible and many things that god's 'ministers' have invented. 5. More facts coming soon.
all right the title of this post is do you think god exists, i doesnt say any thing about proving if he does So all of you people that dont think think he exists prove that to me (christian/jewish God, the God of all Gods) edit all be checking up on this but ill try not to answer to the posts as much because i think ill steer it into the wrong direction (and just so you know since this is a debate people usually go in different directions with debates that some times makes no sence to it but in the end it does)
